#82 - For Parents and Families (IV): On Community Healing and General FAQs

This is part IV of a 4-episode series dedicated to parents and family members of individuals experiencing gender nonconformity, same-sex attractions (SSA) and/or gender dysphoria (GD).

In this episode, Aadam and I wrap up the discussion on healing with the topic of community healing, and then we answer frequently-asked questions from parents and family members of individuals experiencing SSA or GD. How important are therapists and mentors in the healing journey, and what are their responsibilities? Will my child ever "change"? If my child or sibling invites me to read their pro-LGBT material or attend their meetings, should I do that? How can I help my child overcome his/her porn habits and unwanted sexual behaviors? My son or daughter is having a gay wedding, should I attend? These and other questions are explored in this episode.

References used in this episode:
- Gay Children, Straight Parents: A Plan for Family Healing by Richard Cohen
- A Parent's Guide To Preventing Homosexuality by Joseph Nicolosi and Linda Ames Nicolosi

Transcript

Waheed  00:37
Assalamu alaikom wa rahmatullahi ta’ala wa barakatuh, and welcome back to “A Way Beyond the Rainbow”, this podcast series dedicated to Muslims experiencing same-sex attractions who want to live a life true to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala and Islam. I'm your host, Waheed Jensen, and thank you for joining us in today's episode. Today's episode is part four of our series dedicated to parents and family members of individuals who experience same-sex attractions and gender dysphoria, and joining me, again, in this series is my dear friend Aadam. Assalamu alaikom, Aadam.

Aadam  01:08
Wa alaikom assalam, how are you? 

Waheed  01:10
Alhamdulillah, how are you? 

Aadam  01:12
I'm good. Excited for the episode. 

Waheed  01:15
I am excited as well. And this is actually the last episode of this series and the last episode that you'll be joining me in this entire podcast, subhan Allah. You have been with me ever since the beginning and you've joined me a couple of episodes in season one, season two, season four, and now in season five. You’ve been a regular guest on the podcast on and off, and I'm so honored to have been on this journey with you. For a lot of you listeners who might not know this, but the whole podcast idea came from Aadam himself. You told me about this over two years ago, you pitched the idea, and I was a bit taken aback by it at the beginning. And we worked on it. And yeah, I'm just, subhan Allah, very, very grateful for all this, this entire project and how far we've come. So may Allah reward you and may Allah accept from all of us, inshaAllah, this work for His sake.

Aadam  02:11
Ameen, wa iyyakom, barak Allah feek. Subhan Allah, it’s just like you always say, when we talk about this, it’s all from Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala, so none of this would be possible if it hadn't been for Him. It has all been done at the right time and with the right people and all of the resources that have come together, subhan Allah, in the way that they have. And obviously like all the work and effort that you've put in to produce these episodes consistently over the last two years, mashaAllah, may Allah reward you and accept it, inshaAllah. We just hope that it benefits people, which is the whole point.

Waheed  02:53
Ameen, may Allah bless this work, and bring through it a lot of healing and growth and nearness to Him, subhanahu wa ta’ala. That's what matters at the end, inshaAllah. 

So, basically, in the past couple of episodes, as you remember, we started the sequence by talking about the major foundation of this work, which is personal healing. We spoke about this in episode 79. And then, in episode 80, we went into foundations and concepts for us to understand how SSA and gender dysphoria come about, and what dynamics contribute to them. We talked about young children, we talked about adolescents dealing with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria. And in the previous episode, we spoke about practical tips and real-life situations and things that we can do as fathers, mothers, siblings, friends and family members. 

In today's episode, inshaAllah, we're going to wrap up this series by talking about community healing, and we're going to be answering frequently asked questions by parents and family members and the community at large, inshaAllah. So let's get started, inshaAllah.

04:09
In this first part of the episode, we're going to be talking about community healing. So, we've spoken about personal healing, we've spoken about relational healing, and the third part of healing constitutes community healing. As Richard Cohen in his book Gay Children, Straight Parents tells us the idea is to create a welcoming environment at home, in our community and our places of worship. Now, “welcoming”, what do we mean by that? It has to be practical within the limits of Islam. Obviously, we do not condone particular things that are prohibited in our deen, such as same-sex sexual behaviors, gender transitioning etc. What we mean by welcoming environments is for us to create safe, warm spaces within our homes and communities where we understand individuals who deal with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria, where we offer them resources, we offer them the appropriate support networks, access to, for example, resources that they don't have access to. The ability to understand what they are going through, empathy, compassion, practical steps, access to therapy, counseling, support groups, peer support groups, activities and things that actually help them become more in touch with their own gender identity, more accepting of their gender identity, more in tune with their purpose that Allah created them for, and so on. If we don't create these safe and warm and welcoming spaces, they are going to turn to the LGBT community as their “safe haven”. And we remember Richard Cohen's words, “Love is the ultimate weapon to win the hearts of SSA men and women who have felt for so long on the outside looking in.”

Now, what are some practical steps that we can go about community healing, after we have done the work of personal healing and relational healing as well?

Aadam  06:08
Yeah, and some of these include educating our communities, the community you live in, to the extent that's possible. Every part of the world is different, so we have to bear that in mind when we say this. And when we say “educate”, we mean about these issues, about the topic or offering relevant resources, books, podcasts and articles. We've talked about so many of those clearly and the podcast itself is a resource, but also all of the other references and the works that have informed the content, so that we can correct the misconceptions and offer practical solutions that help people deal with this issue. And you can find many of these within the previous seasons of the podcast. 

So, for example, in season one, we talked about the psychological aspects. In season two, we covered spiritual aspects. In season three, we talked about support systems. In season four, we talked a lot about healing and recovery work. And in season five, which is this season, we talked about the social, political and religious aspects, so there's lots of practical advice throughout all of the episodes, inshaAllah, and you can go through these and share them with the people in your community. 

There are so many of us who have relatives and friends dealing with SSA or gender dysphoria, but very few are talking about it. This is happening everywhere, in every masjid and every church and temple around the world, so sharing this, inshaAllah, might help somebody who's otherwise suffering in silence. And there's multiple aspects and branches in the community that we can reach out to: our friends or family, neighbors, schools, educational institutions, we might have offices and workplaces where it's appropriate to do this, masjids, Islamic centers, we need to branch out and communicate and educate and use the content of the podcast and all the other resources, and to spread the information and knowledge far and wide. This is an effort that has to be done collectively. This is not just for me to do, or for Waheed to do; this is for everybody to do, because it touches and affects everyone. It's something that we have to come together to help people deal with. And you'll learn more about other people in the community who are dealing with SSA or gender dysphoria, other parents and family members. People might open up, and you realize there's people like you or people who are dealing with this issue, so we can work together collectively to help each other. 

If you are someone who's having this challenge, or your child is having this challenge, once you understand the issues of your child, you can work practically to find a solution. So, for example, if a girl was ostracized by other girls, in the case of female SSA, allowing loving women to surround her with positive affirmations, and the opposite if your son didn't fit in with other boys or men. You can ask other men to invite him out or participate in his interests, and so on. If you remember, we talked about the three T's, so that's something that we can focus on as well in this context, i.e. time, touch and talk;  spending time, having appropriate physical touch, and communicating. Again, you don't have to be an expert about this matter when you talk about it with others. Just speak from the heart, with your support team about what you've learned and experienced and then about how they can help you and your child.

Waheed  09:49
Absolutely. And again, if you think about it, there are schools and colleges and religious institutions and pro-LGBT organizations that are embracing men and women who deal with same-sex attractions and gender dysphoria in a gay-affirmative and trans-affirmative way. It's about time that we, as Muslims and members of religious communities around the world, create our alternative organizations to support our children with their struggles with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria, or what have you, while staying firm on our convictions and values. And, inshaAllah, we'll discuss this more in the episodes to come, because there are episodes dedicated to teachers and educators as well as Imams and community leaders. So stay tuned for these episodes very soon. 

Again, we've spoken about this in the past episodes, that we need to have same-sex peers to befriend our children who are struggling with these matters. The idea is that a lot of us grew up feeling inferior to members of the same sex. We kind of befriended members of the opposite sex, we dealt with shame and body image issues and so on. So, we need to find healthy same-sex peers, healthy same-sex mentors. This, of course, takes time, energy and wise planning. It takes patience and perseverance. It's not easy, but it's doable, inshaAllah. And it's necessary. So, we pray, we ask for guidance, and Allah will open the way. But we need to put in the effort. So, we need to branch out and ask our local Imams and community leaders for help, for proper networks. We get together with other parents, we ask for their help, we ask for their children's help. We communicate with relatives, with same-sex cousins, uncles, aunts, extended family members. And again, as we've said in the previous episode, please screen for particular bad behaviors as well, if there's any history of abuse among them, if there are any red flags you can avoid those people, but generally, reach out and see how they can help, and how you as well can help them. 

If there are any resources or support groups within your area, please check them out. We have added links to resources and support groups available for parents and family members whose kids deal with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria, so these could be relevant to you. And again, something to always expect is rejection. You can't expect that everything is going to be smoothed out. Expect rejection and turn downs, but the most important thing is never to give up, because your child is worth the effort. And I always like to remember the story of Hajar, may Allah be pleased with her, the wife of Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) when she went to Mecca and she had Prophet Isma’il (PBUH) as an infant with her. She was alone in a desert with no other human being whatsoever except her child with her. And she was going back and forth back between Safa and Marwa. She did not lose hope, she had complete tawkkul on Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. And, subhan Allah, Allah allowed the miracle of the spring of Zamzam to exist. So, it's a matter of having tawakkul on Allah, doing your part, and Allah will take care of it, even if the chances seem to be slim to nonexistent. Allah will take care of things; this is what matters. 

And again, we need to educate religious leaders on same-sex attractions and gender identity issues; our community leaders, the potential stakeholders, all of these need to be educated on these matters. You can actually help do that. And we'll be talking about this more in this episode, to find mentors and to become mentors yourselves to help others, and to help pay it forward. All of this kind of puts everything in perspective with regards to community healing. This is part and parcel of our healing as a community. Moving forward together, inshaAllah, in these quite turbulent times, moving forward asking for Allah's help and keeping Allah front and center, and Allah will take care of everything, inshaAllah. 

Aadam  14:11
Now we'll start looking at some frequently asked questions that we get from friends and family members. And the first question that we're going to cover is, “Why do we need a therapist, and what should we look for in a therapist?” in reference to helping with your child or loved one that you’re trying to help. So, as we mentioned in the last episode, try and work with a counselor or therapist with whom you feel comfortable, who shares your goals for your child and can offer an objective evaluation. This professional should share your philosophy about gender and sexuality as well as your treatment goals, or at least respect your value system and help you with your goals. And they should offer objective evaluation and specific advice regarding your intervention efforts. Since parents naturally become emotionally enmeshed with their child, they will often find it difficult to stay with a particular program on their own. So, finding the right counselor or therapist is very important. A professional psychotherapist who shares your values and objectives will assist you, first of all by providing further education, and then second by correcting blind spots that you might have as individuals and as a parental team. 

The psychotherapist might observe, for example, that you're not communicating effectively with your child. He might see that your son never verbalizes the stresses and conflicts and only seems to be compliant with what you're asking of them. He might point out how mother and father convey different, perhaps even contradicting and confusing messages about gender. To correct childhood gender confusion, a strong parental team is highly important. Your best assurance of change comes when there's a commitment by both parents. These factors, with the commitment of only one parent, a positive outcome is unfortunately much less likely. And remember, there is no such thing as a neutral member of the parental team. The uninvolved parent is perceived by the child as implicitly giving permission to remain as is and as negating the message of the committed parent.

One of the most important responsibilities of the therapist is to help parents express disapproval for cross-gender behavior without conveying disapproval of the child. The therapist helps parents learn to convey explicit expectations to the boy that his effeminate behavior is unacceptable, and to gently but firmly discourage such behaviors. But at the same time, the boy must not experience his parents’ expectations as a deeply personal criticism or rejection. And this is very, very important. Joseph Nicolosi says that what appears to be most effective is for therapists to work on a regular basis with the patients and not the child. After a few weekly sessions, the therapist should usually see the parents only on an as-needed basis, so maybe every month, to coach and monitor the boy’s progress or the girl’s progress. And usually, it's necessary for psychotherapists to see the child only for an initial assessment. And then from time to time afterwards. And of course, this depends on the case, etc.

Waheed  17:18
Absolutely. And here, we're talking about a therapist who helps you as parents to deal with your child, depending on their age group. It depends if they're a child or an adolescent, and that varies. There are different ways that they can help you, and you can explore that with your therapist, of course, in an age-appropriate manner. 

The follow-up question would be, and I'm sure a lot of the parents listening would be like, “Okay, where do we find them nowadays?” Especially in the West, it's very tricky. Most of the therapists are pro-LGBT. That agenda is kind of dominating the scene, whether it's about gender identity, just go and explore whatever gender you belong to, or non-gender even. And your sexuality, you know, this is normal, just embrace it, and so on. And they tell you, even if you were to consult a Muslim therapist, Mobeen told us in a few episodes back, that it's quite a devastating situation. It's literally a shit show, especially with Muslim therapists, that a lot of them are very embracing of the LGBT paradigm. And parents are like, “What are we going to do?” In this situation, when you can't find a proper Muslim therapist to help you with this, then you can also consult a Christian or a Jewish therapist. There's no problem with that, or even a non-religious therapist, as long as these therapists are in line with your value system, they are able to respect your value system, as Aadam said, they share your philosophy about gender and sexuality, and they can help you achieve your goals that you want or whatever is in line with your deen, your boundaries, those are important. 

Again, if you can't find anyone within your vicinity, please reach out to us on Straight Struggle, or reach out to Br. Ali Jaafery on Strong Support, there are support networks for parents whose children deal with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria. Check out the resources that we've added in these episodes, there are a lot of support networks around the world. Of course, they are much more difficult to find nowadays given the pervasive agenda that's taking the world by storm. Still, there are available resources, inshaAllah. And may Allah help us all, this is something that needs to be worked on even more, inshaAllah. So, we hope that the Muslim communities would invest in training counselors and therapists who are well versed in the deen, but who are also well versed in the topics of same-sex attractions and gender dysphoria. This is of utmost importance nowadays, subhan Allah.

Another question that we get is, and we've spoken about this before, the idea of mentors. It's very important to have mentors. “What can the mentor do? What should we look for? Give us practical tips on how to find mentors or what we should look for.” As we said, one way to help your child who deals with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria is to find same-sex mentors for them. If you're a single parent, or if your spouse is unavailable or incapable of mentoring your child, then it's important to find men or women who will demonstrate healthy paternal or maternal love. You may want to ask relatives, friends and people from your place of worship to assist you. And please surround your child with positive gender role models. Many people had to create a network of mentors, because there are dads who are unable to rise to the child's needs. You may also want to kind of enlist the support of several mentors. Each one may contribute his particular strengths, such as sports or spirituality, and others might give him/her warmth and healthy touch. Another one would go out with your kids, for example, fishing or teaching them car mechanics and manual labor and so on. The more mentors that you can find with varying abilities, the better. Always remember that those who did not experience successful attachment and love and intimacy with their father and/or mother, they will seek to fulfill those unmet needs through other relationships or activities. So mentoring is a means whereby one may restore the parent-child relationship. 

Bearing this in mind, there are three areas that will need to be addressed in the process of mentoring, Number one, to break down the walls of detachment, meaning that the mentor will need to be persistent to win the child's heart. Whether that child is still a child, or an adolescent or even an adult, the “adult child” is kind of detached. There needs to be time and patience for the individual to reattach, and by reattachment meaning to feel safe and secure, with his/her own sex, as in, to attach and to feel comfortable with members of their own sex. In this case, we're talking about the same-sex mentor. The second point is to develop healthy patterns in same-sex relationships, meaning to learn to be a woman among women, or a man among men. To feel that I'm comfortable in my body with my same-sex peers. I'm in tune with others, I'm confident, I'm strong, I'm able to internalize the feelings of worthiness and capability. To be able to address the concept of shame, inferiority, and so on, so forth. And the third point would be to experience healthy touch. And we've spoken about this so much. Again, many men and women with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria are touch deprived. So that needs to be addressed as well. 

Now, while being mentored, the individual who is being mentored, whether the child, adolescent or adult, typically we're talking about adolescents or adults, in this case, they will go through stages. So usually, the first stage is that of dependence, which is a natural, healthy reliance on a parental figure. And, in this case, they might be overly attached at the beginning, there's a lot of dependence, and this is completely normal, because, again, you're looking at a child who needs to grow into his full adult self. So, in the beginning, there's a lot of dependence, and then, they will move to the second stage, which is more of independence, in which they will learn to stand on their own two feet. And then, after that comes the stage of interdependence, which is knowing when to take control and take care of oneself, and when they need the help of others. And then finally, they will grow into mutuality, which is giving back to their mentors, giving back to other people, and they can mentor others. This is the general framework.

Aadam  24:08
Now what about the roles and responsibilities of the mentor? What are they supposed to do and what are the practical things that they should be doing? And we spoke about a lot of this in the last episode or even over the last couple of episodes, but just to go through some of these responsibilities and roles in no order. First would be to know the child's love language and to bless and engage them in that way. So, remember, we talked about the different love languages, how the way that we receive love best can be different. Some of us prefer touch, some of us like to spend time, some of us do it through communication, etc. So, knowing what the child's preferences are and using that in the best way to make sure that the child feels the most amount of love and appreciation is essential. 

And just speak words of affirmation and encouragement. Again, we talked about this, telling them that they are smart, that they are intelligent, that they are manly, womanly, etc. Any words of love and affirmation and encouragement throughout the day. Just normal day to day things as well as things specifically for this particular issue. 

To provide a healthy and healing touch. So, we mean things like high fives, which can be very powerful, and there's lots of research about that actually, hugs, everybody loves a hug, or everybody needs a hug, embrace, an arm around the shoulder, all of these sorts of things. Healthy, appropriate, loving touch. 

To teach skills. So, this can also be a part of a love language. Some people develop affinity, affection and love through teaching and learning. So, things like manual skills, thinking skills, life skills, career etc., whatever it might be. So, you might want to teach the child some DIY, for example. I really wish somebody would have done that with me, because I really would like to know more. It’s just so easy to know how to fix things around the house. Or it could be something else. Maybe it's something to do with school, or a project or something, or maybe like a career, like getting a new job. There's just so many things, I'm sure that you know, as a caretaker, parent or mentor, what you can offer to the child that you're helping. 

And to play together; physical play, sports, having fun, anything else that's enjoyable and leisurely. 

To assist in the grieving process. So, this is very important. This is helping the child go through the layers of false selves, overcoming shame and anger, grieving the hurt and the pain, and then letting go and healing as well. So again, we've talked about this in great detail, you can go back to previous episodes to hear more about that. 

The mentor might also act as a surrogate parental figure, especially in the therapy process. For example, if one or unfortunately both of the parents are not available, can’t participate, don't want to participate, then the mentor can actually step in and take that role and fill that that space. So, inshaAllah, regardless of the situation, it doesn't always have to be a parent, there's help available for everybody, inshaAllah.

The mentor should also be a good role model in particular areas of life. So for example, showing the mentee what living by the deen looks like, in the best, most beautiful way. One's career and work ethic, taking care of oneself and others, how to be hospitable, and all of these things, the ways of life, the ways of dealing with people, having good manners. These are all things that the mentor can do for the child that they are helping. 

Also to help them achieve self-discipline, and this is so important for achieving anything in life. Teaching them about accountability, integrity, doing things despite not feeling like you want to do them, having responsibility, and there's an episode in the podcast where we talked about self-discipline and all of these things in detail. So that's definitely something to check out if you want to know more about it. 

Also, to establish healthy boundaries. So, obviously, the mentor must know what healthy boundaries are in the first instance. But if they do, teaching the mentee or the child how to do that, and this is one of the most difficult things through the healing process. I can personally attest to that. So, this is something that is very important. 

Also, to teach emotional self-regulation. So how to deal with all the different emotions we might deal with on a day-to-day basis in a healthy way. Knowing that things like sadness and grief are not things to run away from or to diminish, or to suppress our anger, even these are things that are normal parts of human expression, but how should we actually deal with them, and that's so important for children to learn from a young age. We would expect this as the role of the parents or, in this case, the mentor.

Waheed  29:45
In other words, like how to deal with difficult emotions, because a lot of us grew up to self soothe and engage in numbing behaviors when we deal with negative and difficult emotions. But self-regulation is about rewiring your brain and dealing with them in healthy ways, as opposed to resorting to all of these bad habits that kind of soothe the pain. Subhan Allah, this is very important.

Aadam  30:09
Absolutely. And to bless the child with their special gifts. So, this is really important, because children can't and don't know what they're good at, unless somebody tells them. So, unless somebody tells them that they're good at a thing, and encourages them in that thing, they may not actually spend time on it, especially if it's something that is worthwhile and that could bring lots of benefits. So, as a mentor, this might be something that they want to focus on, identifying talents within the child, and in helping to nurture them. If they're perhaps good at sports, or they're particularly good with some aspect of mathematics, I'm just being stereotypical for Muslim kids, but you know, whatever it might be, provided the child obviously enjoys it as well and wants to engage in that thing, then definitely to encourage them and to share that aspect of them. 

And, as we said before, it might be necessary to have several mentors as no one person can be great at everything. Some people are better at one thing than another. And, again, each mentor will impart special gifts to the child who’s struggling with SSA or gender dysphoria. And also for parents, it will be a double blessing; when you mentor someone else's child who experiences SSA or gender dysphoria, you can love your own child by loving another child. So many men and women with SSA and gender dysphoria are trying to find mentors, yet few people offer their assistance. They will gracefully accept your help as they're desperately looking for healthy, masculine or feminine role models. And you will learn so much about your own child as well. And so, it is a win-win situation for you, your child and the mentee. And there's so many wonderful stories of transformation that have happened through mentoring. SubhanAllah, I've heard many of those as well. 

Mentors, I will say, come in all shapes and sizes and guises. Some of them are there in a more involved capacity, and some of them are only there for a certain area, and they all complement and support the child. So, it's just about bearing that in mind, this is not that the one person has to be everything; as we said, having more than one person involved in a person's life is a good, healthy thing, inshaAllah. 

Waheed  32:52
Another very common question, a very, very common question we get asked is “Will change happen? Will my child or my sibling or my relative or my friend change?” Honestly, this is one of the most, if not the most common question. What we need to say here, we need to kind of deconstruct that, first of all, what do we mean by “change”? A lot of people say like, “Will he or she change?” What do we mean by “change”? Does it mean that their same-sex attractions are going to diminish? Or their opposite-sex attractions are going to increase? Or, in the case of gender dysphoria, are these dysphoric feelings going to dissipate? And will they grow to be more comfortable in their own bodies? Yes or no, we don't know. I mean, these things are different between different people. Sometimes they may happen, sometimes they may not. If you mean by “change”, as in, they will become more accepting of the idea that eventually they'll get married and have kids, well, that may or may not happen, regardless whether they have same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria or not. That may happen, or it may not happen. 

Now, what really matters here, what we encourage you to do, is to kind of refocus that question and ask yourself, “What really matters to the individual in question?” What is most important here is to have the necessary knowledge, and we encourage everyone to work together – meaning, parents to work on themselves, to work as a team, and to help their child learn about the healing journey, and do the work yourself. And when you start to do the work, and then your child starts to do the work, you will start to see changes. And by “changes”, we mean so many different things. A very beautiful quote that I came across, and I've mentioned this earlier at the beginning of the season, in episode 67, it's in Michael Brown's book, A Queer Thing Happened to America, and Michael Brown quotes ex-gay Jeff Johnston, who outlines the kind of change often experienced by Christians who were able to overcome their same-sex attractions. And actually, he divided them into different categories. And these categories, when we look at them, they resonate with many of us in the healing and recovery community, regardless to what extent our same-sex attractions do actually fluctuate. 

And these categories are: Change in behavior, meaning no longer committing homosexual acts or being enslaved to sexual desires. Is this practical? Yes. Is it achievable? Yes. Many do achieve that. Another category is change in motivation, meaning from initial fear and shame to a love for God and desire to follow Him. This is very practical as well. Change in identity, meaning many men who came out of homosexuality do not think of themselves as gay or even ex-gay anymore. They are sons, they are fathers, they are friends, they are husbands, and they are men. And the same, of course, goes to women. So can we shift our identities? For sure, this is also practical. Another one is change in attitude from feeling “victimized” and “rejected”, to being emotionally healed and filled with gratitude and joy. This is a huge milestone. 

Another category is change in relationships with men and women, to be able to develop healthy nonsexual relationships with those of the same sex. Is this attainable? Yes, a lot of us can testify to that, subhanAllah. And then a very important category or theme, we can say, is the change in relationship with Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. A lot of us used to view Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala as angry, uninvolved, uncaring, a negative figure. And now we see Him as a loving Creator. We have a very deep and connected relationship with Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So, this is something that we can attain, inshaAllah through the grace of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. 

And some people can achieve and have achieved changes in their homosexual orientation or their gender dysphoria. Some have achieved a state where their same-sex attractions were able to diminish significantly. Others were able to achieve a state where their opposite-sex attractions were able to kind of become more materialized. People dealing with gender dysphoria were able to get to a point where they were able to embrace their own physical bodies, embrace their own gender and deal with their dysphoric feelings. All of these are on a spectrum, but what matters is what we mean by “change”; if we are able to get to a point where we can heal our wounds, grow, recover, become more in tune with our gender identity, our own physical bodies, develop healthy relationships with members of the same sex, these are all wonderful things. 

So please keep all of this in mind, don't get fixated about “I want my son or my daughter to become straight”, “I don't want them to experience gender dysphoria anymore.” Well, you know, it's a spectrum. There are lots of layers underneath that. So, we hope that this is clear by now. And we can speak from personal experience, subhanAllah. Aadam, you and I, we've known each other for years. We've started off from a place of adopting this identity paradigm, like “This is who I am, there's no way that anything is going to change, how do I deal with this? How do I reconcile that with religion?” Alhamdulilah Rabb Al-‘Alameen, we have come a long way by the Grace of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. We have healed a lot of our own personal issues, we have grown too. We've had mentors, people who love us unconditionally, men who love us unconditionally, in healthy ways. And through that, we were able to overcome a lot of our shame and inferiority feelings. Part of the healing journey is to develop friendships with the same-sex, to go out, to work, to contribute, all of that has been so healing. Looking back 2, 3, 4 years ago, things were completely different, subhan Allah. And now we're in a different place, alhamdulilah. May Allah bless everyone, increase us all and keep us near to Him, and, inshaAllah, things will keep on improving. And it's all up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. We only do our work, and we have tawakkul on Him. 

But this is just to highlight that “change” is seen as a reductionist term. We don't want to see it as something that is reducing you to either x or y, it's not black or white. There are so many layers, just kind of look at it holistically. That really makes a big difference. When we talk about “change”, any kinds of change, whatever kind of change or improvement there is, regardless of SSA or GD, in general, we're talking about humans, any kind of change or improvement is up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. It may or may not happen, and that is not the point. What we need to do, again, is do the work and leave it up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala for Him to allow the results to manifest themselves. Again, from the people that we know, you and I, Aadam, we know a lot of people from the SSA community, whether men or women who were able to get married and have kids and they're leading wonderful lives. Some were able to get married, but they weren't fulfilled, so they got divorced, and they're happy being single men or women, dedicated to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala and helping their communities. Others have chosen to remain celibate and there's no shame in that. It doesn't mean that one is right and the other is wrong. We all have different ways of living our lives, as long as we keep Allah front and center, and we dedicate our lives to Him, regardless of where we are, what we do, etc. What matters is Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So please keep this in mind.

Aadam  40:33
And some of us are still trying to figure that out. So, you don't have to have come to any conclusion, subhanAllah. And just to continue along this talk about “change” and the context of this question, we have to emphasize: Please don't force, coerce, guilt, manipulate or issue ultimatums when you're dealing with your child who's experiencing these problems. This is just the wrong thing to do and will have the complete opposite effect of what you are intending.

Waheed  41:05
Like the worst thing you can actually tell your child, “If you don't change and become straight, I will do this and this!”

Aadam  41:14
Like that's gonna work! If it were that easy!

Waheed  41:16
For sure, it’s like a switch, flip the switch on! 

Aadam  41:21
Exactly, and this just doesn't work. So just please don't do it. And we must also question the motivations that you might have for wanting to change your child. Why do you want them to change anyway? Are you thinking about marriage when you think about change? Or reputation? Loneliness perhaps? Focus on them and getting them to a place where they can be God-conscious Muslims, that is what matters the most. Regardless of all SSA, or OSA (opposite sex attraction), marriage or not, it doesn't matter at all. Also, for marriage, check out episodes 36 and 37 of the podcast to know more and clear up any misconceptions. We discuss a lot of these things in detail. 

Joseph Nicolosi, he says, and I quote, “Change moves slowly, on a gradual continuum, and there will undoubtedly be regressions. It is not a matter of "once homosexual, now heterosexual." And like all psychological change, the transformation will probably never be total. Realistically, there will be some lingering attractions and temptations over the course of a lifetime. Change gradually unfolds in three areas: Self-identity (the realization that "I am really a heterosexual man; I just have a homosexual problem"); Sexual behavior ("I will not act on these temptations"); Attractions (not even desiring another man). The first two categories are the easier ones to change. Achieving change in all three areas is more difficult; the last category, in particular, will change to varying degrees and will progress very gradually over time. As a parent, you will (I sincerely hope) always love and remain close to your child if he does not seek or achieve change. He will still be your son, or she will still be your daughter, no matter what.” 

And I think that's just a beautiful summary of this whole idea of change. This is why we say that this point is really not about healing people or making them heterosexual or any of these things. It is more about, when I say “healing” in the context of a sexual attraction, it’s more about bringing them back to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala, making them God-conscious, and ensuring that they have a very solid and firm foundation, so that they don't fall into the haram, and they live a life that is fulfilled. The thing is that when you seek Allah, Allah opens doors, and all of the things that we worry about, they fix themselves. The barakah of Allah is more than what we could, or more than what I could describe, and He takes care of all of the worries that we have, the ones that we're aware of and the ones that we’re not. So, this is really an exercise in tawakkul in Allah and, inshaAllah, we pray that He gives you that in abundance as you go through this process.

Waheed  44:28
Another question is, you know, if you're a parent or you're a sibling and you're helping your child or your sibling or family member, you might be thinking, “I'm doing the work and I'm trying my best. I'm implementing all the techniques that I can, will my efforts succeed?” You're looking into the future and you're asking, “I'm doing all of this, am I going to get anywhere?” We need to remember that we are taught in Islam to do the necessary work in all areas of life according to our abilities, to seek Allah's pleasure and approval, and to rest assured that Allah will take care of the results, whether we see the fruits of our labor in this lifetime or not, that's not up to us, it's up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So, as such, the outcome that we seek in this dunya is no longer the end result, but Allah’s ridha, His approval, His acceptance is our goal. And when we think about that, that creates a paradigm shift, because everything that I work on is for the sake of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. And, inshaAllah, He rewards me for it, and, inshaAllah, I seek His ridha and His contentment. And ultimately, He is the One who decides how things turn out, regardless whether they turn out to be as we would like them to or not, we're going to be content anyway, because we know that we've done our best, and He takes care of everything. So keep this in mind. Our duty is to do the work for His sake, to seek His support, and then the rest is up to Him. 

We do not put goals for change in our child's SSA or gender dysphoria, and so on. But rather, our goal is to help our child heal and grow to whatever extent Allah decrees. We put in the work. What is within our capacity is our responsibility. So, what is within your capacity? Meaning, your capacity to love, to give attention, time, touch and talk that we spoke about, the ability to encourage your children to develop friendships, maybe to go to therapy, if that's possible, counseling, to engage in support groups. Everything that is within your capacity that you can take care of, that is what you should be doing. But at the end of the day, no one has anything guaranteed. Dunya is all about uncertainties. And if your child chooses the LGBT lifestyle, in the end, you are already clear on where you stand with regards to that. And we hope that you, as loving parents, will always cherish and keep a relationship with your child, because your love is what ultimately matters and lasts. You should never give up hope for healing or change at any point in the future. Allah takes care of everything, it's all in Allah's Hands. 

And there's something that's quite interesting. So, if you want to think about children, siblings, or whoever is dealing with same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria, we can categorize them into three different categories, if you will. The first category is the one who's dealing with same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria but who has an internal capacity or wish that they want to do the work. They are religious, maybe, they want to commit, they want to heal a lot of their personal issues. So that's the first one. The second one is where they're confused, undecided, in between. And the third kind is the one that has fully accepted the identity and says “I'm gay, queer, trans, non-binary, etc.” So, it's somewhere in one of those three. 

You would expect that it's easiest to deal with the first category, because they're motivated, they want to put in the effort, they will use the tools and the resources, they will be receptive to the love and attention and care. Of course, at the beginning, there might be resistance, because, again, we've spoken about defensive detachment and a sense of inferiority, etc. But there's a lot of common ground for cooperation. And through the healing journey, your child may establish new boundaries, will learn to separate and individuate from either the opposite-sex parent or both parents. And this will be healthy developmentally for the child to explore their own personhood, perhaps even for the first time, and they will open once again, but this time as a whole and healthy individual. 

Now, for the second category, which is those who are in between, confused and undecided, the same advice that we've given throughout these episodes applies here. If they're still living with you at home, you can implement these plans with them. And when you do all of this work, it may prevent them from living that lifestyle if they're living on their own, having done the work, they would choose not to pursue that gay-affirmative or trans-affirmative lifestyle. But again, there's so much that you can do to help. It might be more difficult with these kinds of children, but it's possible. 

Now, the third kind, the one that is completely in line with the lifestyle, and they're proud of their identity, and so on and so forth. Of course, it's going to be a bit more challenging. You apply the same tools, but the only difference is that it might take longer for them to break through. The main reason being that they have a mental block, they've assimilated a lot of this paradigm and identity issue. It kind of prohibits them from exploring whatever you have to say. This requires patience, love, you have to expect slow progress, and remember that they have a lot of defensive shields and guards around their hearts and minds. So, keep praying, keep loving them, again, the three T's (time, touch and talk). It's going to take time, it is challenging, but eventually, inshaAllah, you will start to see some improvements, God willing. But again, whether you see that or not, it's up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. What matters is that you put in the effort, and you persevere. 

Aadam  50:14
Needless to say, the keys to success in this are patience, consistency and a positive attitude and tawakkul on Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala, constantly seeking His help in the process. Practice the wealth of skills that you will learn and have learned, and keep a positive attitude. Pour the right kinds of love into your child and seek support as you do this, and, obviously, pray for Allah’s intervention and guidance, and, eventually, inshaAllah, there will be a change in your family system. Regardless of what happens to your child's SSA or gender dysphoria issues, you'll need to take care of yourself on this journey. It's a healing journey, not a destination. Your child needs healthy affection, affirmation and acceptance, and remember that's your child and not their lifestyle, but their true personhood. The more you invest in this, eventually you'll move into their hearts and break it wide open. Of course, Allah is the one doing the work, and all healing and growth comes from Him. You do your work, and be confident that Allah will be working as well. 

It's important to remember that the responsibility for “change” is not on anyone. You don't change anyone, I don't change anybody, nobody changes anyone. You create intimacy and secure attachment. We cannot individually change anyone. Only Allah changes the people. Remember that you can change yourself only. You give love in all of its forms as much as you can to those around you. And you set an example with your steadfast and unconditional love, your patience, steadfastness, righteousness and piety. Bearing in mind that most SSA relationships don't last, your relationship with your child is the one that lasts the more you pour love into it. The idea that you would say through your actions and words, “I will love you with all my life no matter what, please teach me what you need. I'll never let go.” And put your faith in Allah, do your best and never give up.

Waheed  52:10
Absolutely. Amen. Another scenario that you might face is the situation in which your child or your sibling might be sharing literature or online content with you, or asking you to attend meetings of their choice which are pro-LGBT, and the parent or sibling might be asking, “What do I do in this case?” Don't think about it in terms of halal and haram, but think about it in terms of you building bridges. So, at least at the beginning, if they share with you this content, be open to it. Thank them for giving it to you, tell them that you will check it out. Again, the aim is for you to build bridges with your child or your sibling. You are letting them know that you appreciate and respect them by doing. If you say “no”, you're not going to do that, it's not going to help you in building bridges and reaching into their hearts. Remember everything that we've been talking about throughout these episodes, that's your key to finding that common denominator between you and them. Even if you disagree with their thoughts, you don't have to agree with the content at all. Your aim is to create a secure bond with your child or your sibling or the person in the scenario. 

And then, once you have checked that content out, be honest in your opinions and views. Don't lie. But at the same time, don't be hypercritical. Of course, your child or your sibling may react strongly to any disagreement, but remember that they are still working through their issues of self-regulation, acceptance and all of these matters, especially if they are teenagers. So be kind and loving to them. Pick your words carefully, but be fair. If there is emotional conflict, reaffirm that you love them no matter what. You must ensure that no matter what happens, you will always let them know that they are loved unconditionally. 

Now what about if they ask you to go to meetings of their choice? Our advice is to be courageous and go. Remember, again, you are seeking to understand, even if you disagree. You don't have to agree; you're not condoning anything. If you go to the meetings, you're just there out of curiosity, because your child or your sibling asked you to, and you are there to learn. Walking in your child's shoes, this will help you do that. You're not supporting the lifestyle, you're not condoning it, they know where you stand in terms of these issues. But what you are doing is you're showing your child that you care and aiming to understand him/her as well as others in their shoes. And once you have spent time reading their material, engaging with it and having conversations, you can begin to share some of the material that you like, because, ultimately, a lot of you would want to share material that is Islamically oriented. 

If you flip the table and look at it from their perspective, if you want to share your material with them, and you want them to be responsive, you have to be responsive to the material that they share with you. So just keep it natural. And gauge the temperature as they say. Again, maybe your child or your sibling has been consuming a lot of LGBT-affirming material, so keep that in mind that. It's not going to be smooth sailing, especially at the beginning. Once you have built enough rapport with them to offer an alternative viewpoint, and they get to a point where they are able to receive it, well, then feel free to share your material. But don't be like, “I went to your meeting, now you have to go to my meeting!” Or “I've read your paper, now you have to listen to this podcast.” That's not going to happen. What matters is, at the beginning, you build those foundations with them. Do not hammer them with any material of your choice. Once you get to a point where you've built those communication skills and that rapport and you've established an emotional bond, and they're secure with you, then you can start slowly but surely introducing these concepts, engaging to what extent they're actually willing to discuss these things with you. Use your intuition. If they are biased against these things, if they are rejecting, if they're adamant about not listening, then it might not be the right time. But you can always try again at some other time. 

And the ultimate question, what we want you to get from this, the take-home message here is, ask yourself this question: “Will doing this thing bring me and my child closer?” Whatever this thing that you want to do is, will it bring me closer to my child? You are seeking to heal the wounds and create secure bonding and attachment. If you introduce literature that opposes their worldview and will jeopardize the relationship, then refrain from doing that. Focus on building secure bonding and attachment. When you do share anything, share it in small doses, and get their feedback on it. As they say, drip feed the content to them and continually check in to see how they are feeling about it. So, we hope this helps.

Aadam  57:21
Another common question is “I discovered the diary of my child and learned that they are confused about their gender identity or experiencing SSA. What should I do about this?” You know, this is a tricky situation. But first of all, do not tell them that you discovered this in their personal private diary. This is detrimental to your relationship and trust, which is so important, as we've established, in your relationship with them, especially in this context. So do not do this. What you can do is to cultivate unconditional love and security, all of the things that we've already talked about, but don't make any drastic changes to your normal day-to-day life. So don't go over and above what your baseline is at the moment. You don't want to rock the boat too much. 

Waheed  58:18
And they'll be like, “Okay, what the hell is happening? They read my diary!”

Aadam  58:22
Yeah, so you don't want to be sending off signals. And realize this is your child, regardless of whatever happens, or however they are feeling, you have to be there for them. We've talked about this a lot over this episode and the last. So please remember that. And what you can do, though, you can begin reading up and preparing yourself, so all the books, the podcasts, articles, etc. To prepare for the day that they will come and tell you. This will give you a head start more than anything else. Being prepared and maybe thinking about how you and your spouse deal with it when that moment comes. 

Also, make lots of dua’a, obviously ask Allah for help and guidance. This goes without saying, but we should say as well, Allah is in control of all things, and may He assist you through this process. Also do your own work; again, episode 79, if you haven't listened to that, then you can go there, and we talk about this in great detail as you go through the whole series, this entire series that is dedicated to friends, family, community members of people who have SSA or gender dysphoria. And then, finally, please don't go into tracking or overbearing parental mode. Again, this is all unhelpful in the situation. So, avoid.

Waheed  59:47
Yeah, avoid doing that for sure. 

Aadam  59:50
Another question that's asked often is, “We discovered our adolescent child has been looking at gay porn, or is addicted to porn, masturbation, sex, etc., or has been experimenting. How do we deal with this?” So, homosexual experimentation may result from feelings of normal pure infatuation, emotional dependency, and need for belonging, search for pleasure or just simple curiosity. It might be an expression of anxiety about growing into adulthood and a means of avoiding the challenges of heterosexual social relationships. As someone who's younger, who feels socially inadequate, overwhelmed by the pressures of being in relationships, or in conflict about their sexual desires and impulses, they might resort to engaging in homosexual behavior by default. 

A teenager's preoccupation with gay themes should cause parents’ serious concern, and this requires appropriate professional intervention. Sometimes these preoccupations are also accompanied by overwhelming guilt, self-condemnation, and even suicidal thoughts, particularly if you, as the parents, are harshly critical of your teenager’s identity struggles. You must take your son or daughter's depression and suicidal thoughts with seriousness. A very appropriate response is to affirm your son or daughter as a person, and to recognize your child's deep need for same-sex emotional attachment while refraining from affirming their behaviors as normal. Again, we've talked about this repeatedly throughout these episodes, and it's so important. 

Experimenting with homosexual behavior serves to reinforce and deepen a gay identity, so it's very important to intervene early. As we discussed before, unlike a prepubescent child, a teenager is now dealing with puberty and the onset of eroticization of the “different” than me, hence the same sex in this case. The lack of gender identification and same-sex emotional needs remain unmet and contribute to the homosexual desire. And the fulfillment of this desire is very easy nowadays with pornography and sex outlets. Obviously let's not forget the role of media and pop culture as well as the school systems nowadays, unfortunately, that portray LGBT life favorably, even glamorously, encouraging all “sexually and gender questioning” adolescents to try on an LGBT identity. Especially for youth who typically feel misunderstood and unappreciated by parents and authority figures, the notion of a subculture with similarly oppressed youth “where I can be accepted for who I really am”, is incredibly appealing.

Traditionally, mental health professionals understood much of adolescent homosexual behavior to be experimentation, rather than a commitment to some permanent form of self-identity. They acknowledge that for the majority of adolescents, homosexual experiences represent nothing more than a period of developmental curiosity that will eventually be discarded as heterosexual interests came to predominate. And they recognized that, with proper guidance, the young person would sort out the real meaning of their sexualized longings. But today, the teenager’s natural desire to belong to an embracing community along with the extraordinarily easy availability of porn and gay sex can quickly lead any confused young person into deepening the self-identity. Joseph Nicolosi says that quite a few of his adult homosexual clients have told him that they always assumed they were straight until their first homosexual experience. Afterwards, they believed that the pleasure felt in that experience must have proven to them to be gay. Also, it's important to know that teen’s sexual feelings are paradoxically the most intense when their personal identity is the most uncertain and most fragile. Premature self-labeling such as gay can be especially damaging at this age, because adolescents are not adequately equipped to make decisions that carry profound and potentially life-threatening lifestyle consequences.

Waheed  1:03:59
Absolutely. So, given everything that Aadam just mentioned, what do we do? “Okay, so we've discovered that our child has been looking at gay porn or has been surfing adult websites, cruising or looking for sex, or has been masturbating excessively or has been experimenting etc. How do we deal with all of that?” First of all, of course it's going to be shocking. You need to be dealing with yourselves first. It's going to be shocking, you need to navigate that shock, that pain, that feeling of disgust or those difficult emotions that you're going through. And we've spoken about the five stages of grief in episode 79 and how to navigate that. You may want to go back and revisit that episode as well. 

Please do not make it about you. A lot of parents make it about them. “How could my child do this? You know, I've taught you better, how did you do that?” Or they might confront the child and make things worse. Do not blow up please. If you approach this wisely and rationally, the chances of you working with your child and improving and helping them outgrow this would become much more realizable, inshaAllah. 

When we talk about any kind of addiction, or any kind of numbing behaviors, harmful behaviors, even if it's addiction, if it got to a place of addiction, all of these things are there to fill a void. They act as numbing behaviors or mechanisms to soothe pain. So, your child is actually resorting to these things, because there's a void inside of him that he/she wants to fil. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it is connection. And that is very important. If you want to help your child overcome these issues, you have to connect with them. You need to provide them with healthy resources and healthy people that they can connect to. We've spoken about this in detail back in season four. So, if you want, we encourage you to go back to episode 55, which talks about masturbation in detail, and episodes 56 to 59, these are four episodes that are dedicated to porn and sex addictions, with lots of references and resources linked into them. 

There's so much to learn about when it comes to the physiological, emotional and the personal perspectives of addiction. The techniques to demystify triggers and overcome urges and to understand more about the withdrawal period, what it includes, potential pitfalls and mind games on the journey of healing recovery as well as a lot of practical tips and tools that you can use, as well as spiritual themes that we need to understand. Again, you don't have to do this alone, you need help in the process. Please seek counseling and therapy. There are lots of support systems and therapists who are available to help you and help your child overcome all of these issues that they're going through.

But please realize that your child needs you. The issue here is that of connection, belonging, love, affirmation, time, touch and talk (the three T's). Do not blow up in their faces. Realize that they're dealing with pain. Don't exacerbate their pain or add more to it. Embrace them, love them, and move forward together in a direction that helps them heal. That's what's important here. 

Another question is, and this is something that hits home, “I discovered that my child was a victim of sexual abuse, what should I do?” And this can be very devastating for parents to learn, especially if they had no idea that this actually happened. We have two comprehensive episodes on this topic, episodes 60 and 61, that talk about this entire topic from A to Z. So please check these episodes out, as well as the resources included in there. There are tons of resources that I have attached and links to websites, etc. We have spoken about the impacts of sexual abuse, the barriers to healing, we talked about the path of healing from sexual abuse, as well as a lot of frequently asked questions for survivors and their loved ones. So please check them out. Check out the books and the websites that I've added. All of these are linked in the show notes of these two episodes, again, episodes 60 and 61. 

Now, if you, as a parent or a sibling or a relative, someone who is a survivor of sexual abuse, if you are beginning to deal with this, our most important advice that we can give you is please take care of yourself. Do not push the individual who experienced abuse or assault to do things or not do things or say things or not say things. The better that you take care of yourself, the more effectively you can support him or her. You will be more able to take a break when you are getting overwhelmed, to manage your feelings like anger and sadness, and to reach out for help when you need it. You will be a model of self-care for him/her and you are more likely to stick with him/her in ways that are healthy for you. Even in the hardest times. It's very important to pace yourself. So everything that we talked about in the first episode in the sequence, which is on personal healing, everything applies here. 

It's possible to learn about sexual abuse and assault pretty quickly. But you don't have to figure everything out right way. If you don't pace yourself, and you go full steam ahead, this can create new problems. So before trying to share what you learn with a person you are concerned about, take some time to kind of “digest” the information for yourself. And take time to sort through your own feelings and your beliefs and your needs. Again, remember the five stages of grief that you need to go through. So, take time to go through that. And consider what is the most effective way to talk to your child or your sibling or your relative. 

Again, do not push them or make plans, because when we push them, we're often responding to our own feelings rather than their own needs. And, as a result, the other person's going to feel that and they're going to resist it. They're going to push back, and then at that point, it becomes a struggle. It's not going to help them. It's not going to help us. Seek help and counseling to understand the matter more. Develop tools and techniques to help yourself and the other person who experienced the trauma. Survivor stories are a huge asset to read and to listen to, this is very important. So, check those out online, there are lots of those, or talk to others who have been through this as well who have gotten to a better place. There's so much to learn from in terms of dealing with pain, healing and resilience. 

One of the most important things to deal with is the idea that many parents or siblings blame themselves. “If I had been more vigilant, if I had been with them more, things would have not turned out the way that they did.” The fact that mistakes or traumas happen, in many cases, may be beyond us. You have tried your best, but some things are just beyond us. So, it's easy to slip into shame and self-blame, but it takes courage and work to fix the problem and to grow and heal. So please attend to the problem when it arises, do not postpone it or ignore it. 

Now that you know about the problem, you have to deal with it. And if an incident happens again, please investigate it immediately. And do not let it slide. If you knew about something that has happened maybe in the past couple of weeks, or the past couple of months, or even years back, and you can investigate that, then do that. Seek therapy, counseling and support to help the individual who's been through that traumatic experience, to allow them to heal and to grow from that and recover. The earlier that you attend to this problem, the better chances for healing exist. And always offer love and attention and affection. 

And then if the other person is willing to speak, please ask them questions. Be curious. But do not make any judgments or be defensive or make presumptions and all of that. Allow them to articulate their own thoughts and concerns. Be aware and be cognizant, be a good investigator try to find out what has happened. And be aware of what they are exposed to through the media and other people as well. Allow for an environment in your home where they can share everything with you without any fear or judgment. And that is very important. And if they go through mood changes, they seem to be aloof, they are not themselves anymore, ask questions to make sure that they are safe, and teach them to trust their gut feelings, to tell you when something has happened, or when someone has touched them inappropriately, especially if they're kids. And to never be afraid of sharing these experiences. Here, we’re speaking in general about prevention methods to lay the foundations for a healthy atmosphere where children can share with you things when they happen, as opposed to being ashamed of them and not talking to anybody. And tell them that, no matter what happens, you are there for them to support them and love them. 

Speaking from a communal healing perspective, please do not shy away from talking about sexual abuse in your own schools, in your mosques and your Islamic centers, or in your social gatherings. We know it's a taboo topic. But sadly, this is a very common issue that we face, especially in our Muslim communities. And again, we must regurgitate that over and over, that Islam has nothing to do with it. It's all about trauma, toxic cultural mindsets, what have you. It is about time that we engage in this conversation. Reach out a helping hand when you can. There are many people who are dealing with this. You never know, you might be saving someone's life if you do that. Again, we've spoken about this in detail back in episodes 60 and 61. So please check them out if and when that is possible.

Aadam  1:13:38
Another question that's commonly asked is, “If my child has gay friends, or he/she has a partner or lover, what do we do?” If your child is still living at home, do your best to get to know their friends. If they're an adult and living away from home, becoming acquainted with their friends will be much more challenging. So, any efforts you make along these lines are best done in a friendly, non-intrusive sort of way. You might say things like, “I want to get to know you better and your friends too.” As they begin talking about one friend or another, you might ask, “What is it about your friend that you like so much?” Become more curious and try to learn what they're doing, their interests, and take time to meet these friends and invite them over. 

You might wonder, “Does this one have SSA or maybe the other one?” Let go of those types of thoughts. Remember those who experience SSA are hurt children who need love. It’s all about compassion and genuine concern, and the more that we listen to our children and their friends, the better we will understand and appreciate them. Please be sure you're acquainted with your son's friends as a father, and as a mother do the same for your adult daughter if your child has a same-sex girlfriend or boyfriend. Our advice is that you go out of your way to meet, embrace and love this person. This is someone else's son or daughter. Remember, all SSA kids are wounded and looking for love. I know this may be one of the most difficult things for you to do. Perhaps even the “yuck factor” will rise up from the depths of your soul. You must do your best to get over that recoil. Take a breath and try and see beyond the adolescent or adult to the child. What you're really looking at are two little boys or two little girls seeking to fulfill their gender identity through one another. The problem is neither one of them has solved this identity crisis. With your warmth and presence, though, you can be the bearer of great treasures for both of them. 

Be compassionate, be generous, and be as loving as you can. It's worth repeating that by getting to know your child's partner, you can figure out what needs your child is trying to fulfill with that person. If she has an older partner, for example, then she has a need for being parented or is making up for lost parenting. If it's the same age partner, he's trying to absorb or inherit characteristics that he feels detached from within himself. And if the partner is younger, then she's trying to paint or love herself through another person, or attempts to heal unresolved issues from that period in her life. Many women have been deeply hurt by men and therefore turn to women for their native affection. Some are looking for mothering from others or for someone to mother, they are looking to join with someone from the same sex to meet childhood emotional needs for bonding and intimacy. Or they may be fleeing from intimacy with someone of the opposite sex because of hetero-emotional or hetero-social wounds. Some are drawn to the weaker or more wounded types. They are excellent caretakers, basically, they're giving to others what they hunger for themselves. They're just too frightened of trusting anyone or of “losing control”. 

The more you reach out and embrace your child's friend or partner, the closer you can grow to your SSA child. Your children will know fully well that you completely disagree with that lifestyle. It shows the power of your unconditional love for them. But, on the other hand, when you embrace the partner, this might make the child furious. Because, remember, sometimes there is an attachment problem. There's some kind of oppositional behavior, “You hurt me, and I'm going to hurt you”, that type of thinking. So, by loving their partner, you may upset them, because they unconsciously want to hurt you through their same-sex activities. And then when this doesn't work, it might be confusing. Nonetheless, be persistent and consistent in loving both your child and their partner. True love has the power to heal.

Waheed  1:17:42
Absolutely. For sure. Again, a lot of parents may be completely rejecting this idea. And they're like, “What the hell are you saying? We don't want that! We don't want to know those people, and we don't want our son or daughter to be living that way.” None of this is condoning the lifestyle if you reach out and you embrace your child and you embrace the other person. None of that means that you are okay with the lifestyle itself. I've been speaking to a couple of parents, and one particular couple, God bless them (assalamu alaikom if you’re listening!), they are such a lovely mother and father, may Allah bless them. It’s been quite difficult; their daughter is grown up, she has a partner, female partner, obviously. They're living together and the parents are Muslims. they're dedicated Muslims, and they're not okay with this arrangement. But they have put in the work, MashaAllah, I'm proud of them. May Allah bless them and increase them. They've read books, they've contacted therapists and resources, they have done the work, and they have embraced their child. And even though it's very painful to both the mother and father, they are doing that because they love their child. And when you ask them, “Are you okay with the lifestyle?” They're like, “Heck, no! Of course not. We are never going to condone the lifestyle.” And even though it's difficult, they're still persevering. The child knows that her father and mother are not okay with the lifestyle. So, this is where the boundaries are set. 

So, you as parents can set boundaries with what is acceptable under your own roof. What they don't accept is any particular behaviors or acts that are haram. But when their daughter and her partner, they come and visit, they're coming and visiting as friends. They're having dinner, chilling at home, and then they leave. So, nothing haram is happening. So, this is where we need to draw the line. Our Muslim households, they follow Islamic values and laws. And this is where it is. But keep in mind that your love is the one that lasts. And we hope that you will build those bridges, and you will continue to establish those foundations, that your child will eventually come back to you, inshaAllah. Now, “Does that happen? When is that going to happen?” That's up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. Again, we do the work, we leave the rest up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. And we hope that makes sense. 

And another question that follows up on this is, you know, “What if our child wants to have a sleepover, like they're still adolescents or young adults, but they're still living with us, and they want to have a sleepover, and they want to bring their same-sex friend, and we know that there's something going on?” The answer is that you need to be consistent with your values. I mean, judging that, like a liberal household, would you allow your son to bring a girlfriend home and you would have her sleep in his bed? No, you wouldn't. Do not be inconsistent and allow his boyfriend to do the same. If you don't allow that for your daughter or son who doesn't have same-sex attractions, then you would not allow it for your son or daughter who does have same-sex attractions at home. So, you maintain the same standard with whoever it is. 

Obviously, here, we're talking to an Islamic audience. So, we have our own Islamic values and laws. Whatever is haram, we don't allow it under our own roof. We follow our deen, this applies to everyone under this roof. When you do that, your child, of course, may be angry with you, but they will respect your integrity, because this law applies to everyone. And we suggest a particular way of communicating, you can say something like, “Son, if you want your friend to stay over, you and he need to sleep in different rooms. We would maintain the same standard with everyone, as you know. So, the same thing happens here.” And you can elaborate on the religious perspective of what's allowed and what's not. So, you're not saying “No sleepovers, full stop”, but you're saying “Okay, well, if that's going to happen, then we're going to hold you to the same standards that we hold everyone else to, and you're welcome to bring your friend home, but you're going to have to sleep in different bedrooms." 

Aadam  1:22:10
Another question is, “My child or sibling or loved one is openly gay or trans, living the lifestyle, has a partner and so on, is their hope for them to ever come back?” As we've said before, that's in the Hands of Allah, what is within our capabilities is to do the work, build bridges and shower them with unconditional love and be there for them, whilst also being clear about our own boundaries and what we accept and don't accept. Ultimately, your love is what lasts at the end. 

Waheed  1:22:42
Exactly. So, you just do the work and the rest is up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala.  

Aadam  1:22:47
Another question is, “My child has a partner and they're living together. I'm doing my best to embrace them both, but it hurts. I'm doing my best, but I can't sit like this anymore.” You're doing your best. Seek help from Allah, discuss this with your spouse and support system and seek counseling and help yourself. Please remember, your child is a grown adult and they make their own choices. You've done your part and now they're independent and have their own choices to make. Keep praying for them, keep connecting with them. But know where you stand on these issues. And your love with them is the one thing that will last. Remember, we're asked to do the work, the result isn't on us. And again, as we've said before, it's all in Allah's Hands, place your trust in Him and, inshaAllah, no matter what happens, He will always be there, inshaAllah. We can't control the eventual outcomes, but what we can do is to do our best.

Waheed  1:23:47
Absolutely, and subhanAllah, going back to the couple that I mentioned just a few minutes ago, the mother reached out and she told me that “I'm doing all of this, but it really hurts me from the inside. Like, we're even celebrating our daughter's partner's birthday at our home or inviting them lunch and dinner every now and then we're reaching out, but it really kills me from the inside.” And everything that you just mentioned, the answer that you gave, I told her that, but subhan Allah, at that point, I also remembered saying something, that we need to reorient our compass to what matters, and we do our best, we seek help from Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. Yes, things are challenging, and these are trials and tribulations, and Allah doesn't give us something more than we can handle. 

But also, sometimes, we need to ask ourselves, “What is this feeling trying to tell me? Why am I feeling this way?” This pain that I'm having, even though I'm doing my best, that I'm not seeing my child “change” or leave the lifestyle or be the way that I want them to be. Maybe this kind of dissonance that I'm experiencing is because I haven't surrendered this issue completely. And I know that this is a next-step sort of thing, that is very difficult to do. But maybe sometimes we go through trials and tribulations - and we know this from our deen, that Allah wants to purify us, to the extent that we're no longer attached to anything and anyone but Him. And so, sometimes, maybe these very excruciating challenges that we go through are a way of Allah telling us “Well, you need to work on this because you're still so attached to that thing, and I don't want you to be attached to that thing, or that person, more than you are attached to Me. I want you to detach from everything and everyone and be attached to Me”, as in Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So the fact that you are so hung up on this issue, and it's really causing you so much pain and trouble that you can't sleep at night, and you're just having this gnawing feeling on the inside, maybe it's about time that we reconnect with Allah and say, “I know that this is so painful, and I can't deal with it anymore. But I want to give it to You, Allah, and I want You to take care of it. And I want to surrender this to You.” And we know that this is very difficult. Of course, it's very challenging. It's very excruciating. We are not parents; we can only imagine what you are going through. But we know that Allah is ar-Rahman ar-Raheem. And when you actually surrender that to Allah, Allah will give you more in return, and more than you would have ever imagined. 

So, what I'm trying to say is, look at this challenge in a way that asks, “What is Allah trying to teach me through it? And have I achieved true surrender to Him or not?” Anyway, subhan Allah, I just remembered this, even though I didn't write it, so I really hope it resonates with people.

1:26:43
Another question is, “My child, sibling or relative wants to have a same-sex wedding and I'm invited. What should I do?” This is very tricky. But it's not a black-or-white issue. There are multiple shades of grey. And it's a difficult issue, of course, and different people can behave differently. And if you have been following this season, you have probably listened to episode 72 with a Sh. Mustafa Umar, and we have spoken about this issue in detail. If you haven't listened to that, I encourage you to go back to that episode, and I talk about this in detail. But the gist of it is that if your attendance is viewed as condoning the act, meaning same-sex sexual relations and behaviors and all of that, and you're condoning the union, and you're condoning homosexuality, then you should not be there. But if your presence is not condoning that, then it's fine for you to be there. And again, for more details and nuance, we encourage you to check that episode out, which is number 72. 

But the most important thing, in addition to that, is for you to communicate with your child and to explain to them your position, and then to understand what the context is about and who is going to be attending the ceremony. Communication can be like something like, “Son, you know that based on our values, we do not approve of this lifestyle. However, we love you and we accept you as you are today, we're going to attend your ceremony. But it doesn't mean that we approve of the lifestyle. Please know that this is very difficult for us, but we love you no matter what. And that is not what we have envisioned for your life. But we love you no matter how difficult it is for us. And we will stand with you and for you. And we hope you realize that.” That is in the case if you choose to attend. But if you choose not to participate in the ceremony, then lovingly share your truth with your child and let them know that it is about you and your values and your beliefs, and that this is where you draw the line. And you may say something like, “We cannot attend your ceremony as much as we love you both. It is simply too difficult for us to endorse this. We believe in you. However, we do not believe that two people of the same gender are meant to live as a married couple. This is not what Allah wants, and we hope that you will understand”, or something like that. 

You will need to work through your thoughts and feelings individually, as a couple, and perhaps with other supportive family members and friends and support group members, and consult about this. Pray istikharah, ask Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala for His guidance, and take time to make up your mind. Do not make a quick emotional decision or behavior that will affect your child's life. And look at this issue from many angles. It's not black-or-white, and remember that your love is the one that lasts. And as Richard Cohen always says, “The one who loves the most and the longest wins.”

Aadam  1:29:35
Another question is “Should I completely discourage cross-gender behaviors and interests, especially for young kids?” This is something we've discussed before in terms of encouraging gender-affirming clothes, toys, and peers and so on. It is about being smart and gradual about it. Encouraging and affirming, being loving and kind, and making sure that you're conveying the message that you're not rejecting the boy or the girl, but rather the behaviors or the clothes for example. 

So you could say things like, “We love you and you're an amazing boy or girl, but boys don't wear this or girls don't wear this or do that. How about we try this instead?” with a smile and a hug. While discouraging unwanted cross-gender behavior, parents must be sure that the child feels affirmed as a unique individual. And this also means your child is not expected to become a stylized boy or girl with nothing but gender stereotypical interests. There can be a fair amount of gender crossover. But at the same time, healthy androgyny must first be brought up on a solid foundation of security in one's original gender. A lot of parents say, “What's wrong with a boy playing with dolls?” There's nothing wrong with it if the boy has a solid foundation of his boyness and isn't gender confused. If he's gender confused, such activities only reinforce that. So that's what's important to keep in mind. 

Also, it's important to realize that Islam isn't rigid about gender roles and gender stereotypes insofar as particular red lines are not crossed, like cross-gender dress and behavior. Everything else, interests, hobbies, etc. are valid as long as they are permissible. And check out episodes 73 and 77 of this season, we've discussed and talked about this in more detail.

Waheed  1:31:27
Exactly. We talked about gender, gender nonconformity, gender roles, and all of that. So, these are discussed in detail in episodes 73 and 77 as well. 

Another question, which is very common nowadays, unfortunately, especially in the West, you know, “How do we deal with school systems that are pushing the gay or trans agenda on our kids? Are there any Muslim resources?” and so on. It's very important for you to educate yourself on these topics, to mobilize with other parents and see what you can practically do within your own locality. What is legal for you to do nowadays with everything that's changing considerably very quickly. If it's too much, and you can't do anything about it, maybe consider homeschooling if that is an alternative that you can do. Maybe shift to Islamic schooling, if that is also a possibility. Of course, these are different challenges, but, inshaAllah, we have a full episode dedicated to that coming up, it's episode number 86, and we will talk about this more within the overall theme of schools and educational systems, inshaAllah. 

Another question that we get asked is, “My son or daughter came out as gender non-binary or non-conforming, or they're trans. They want me to use their preferred pronouns, or they're considering transitioning, whether socially or medically, what should I do about this?” This is quite difficult too, subhan Allah, but we have spoken about this in detail, so please check out episode 73 all the way to episode 78. We talked about gender, gender nonconformity, gender atypical individuals, intersex, gender dysphoria and transgenderism, from medical and legal perspectives, as well as Shar’i perspectives and contemporary challenges when it comes to the trans movement and how to deal with all of that in our families and communities. So please educate yourself on these topics and check out the resources and the references that we've added in the episodes as well. I'm sure that they will provide you with the necessary knowledge, inshaAllah, to deal with that. 

Another question is, “My child is exposed to a lot of progressive shubuhat. He/she is bringing home a lot of these questions, like a lot of the revisionist arguments related to Prophet Lut (PBUH) and his people. The story is being told differently to them, or that Islam is a homophobic religion that kills homosexuals and all of that. I don't know how to deal with that. How should I answer them? How do I handle that?” All of these are discussed in detail in episodes 69 and 70 with Br. Mobeen Vaid. We spoke in detail about a lot of these revisionist arguments, and in episodes 71 and 72 when we spoke with Sh. Mustafa Umar on a lot of the Shar’i and legal perspectives surrounding that, so please make sure to check them out. And a wonderful article that's been written is Br. Mobeen’s article, Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle. This is a very important piece to be read, and Br. Mobeen also speaks about it in the episodes on revisionist arguments as well.

Aadam  1:34:30
Another question is, “With many of the interventions implemented consistently and appropriately, what do we expect along the healing process?” And that's a really good question. Many parents wonder and ask what their child is going through as they walk through the healing process. Of course, this is a natural concern. There are certain phases your child may experience as they process developmental stages of childhood or as they are in therapy. There is no strict order in which these phases take place. But the idea is that the sense that they're different from and somehow inferior to other boys (and vice versa for girls) begins to diminish, and they become more comfortable with who they are. So, there's a couple things that might happen and we'll go through them. 

So, the first, they might set new boundaries with you; where they once shared a large part of their thoughts and feelings, they might begin to separate and individuate, as we've discussed before, as part of their early developmental years. There's nothing wrong with this, and it's actually a crucial part of the healing process. They're learning to find their own voice, feelings and perspectives, apart from you as the parent, so give them space and allow them to work through this. 

They might also establish new rules for relating to you. Your child might seek to create a new space within which to be in a relationship with you, one that's safer than they’ve previously experienced or perceived and where there's respect and acceptance. They need to feel like they won't be punished or shamed for expressing their needs. They will also seek acceptance as your child. They want to be fully accepted as they are without any condition. They need to know that there's no need for them to change, and that you will love them and accept them no matter what happens. Unconditional Love. In other words, they need you to listen and respect their choices. They might make choices that you don't agree with, but you need to allow them the space to learn from experience. The more they do this, the more personal power they will gain, and the more self-assurance and well rested within themselves that they will become. So ultimately, this is positive and good for them. 

They may also ask you to engage in the healing process. There may come a point when your child wants you to be involved in their healing process in order to resolve issues from the past, and this is a very good sign, as it shows that they trust you enough to engage you. This may also work the other way where you might engage your child in your own healing process in order to resolve past issues. And both of these are perfectly acceptable, and they're good if they do come about. Also, they might share deeper hurts and pains that you knew nothing about. This, we must mention, might come with a lot of blame, so you will need to employ a lot of the listening skills that we discussed in earlier episodes, listening well and loving hard, seeking forgiveness and sharing their grief with them. The more that they grieve, the faster that they'll go through this. They will develop healthy relationships with same-sex parent and peers. So, this is another indication that there's change taking place. So, there's growth happening. 

As your child heals, they'll develop stronger bonds with same-sex parent and same-sex peers and strengthen their own gender identity. As a result, they will be more open to making friends of the same sex and having healthy bonds. You may also notice a decreased effeminacy for boys, in particular. So, parents might observe a diminishing of the behaviors that first caused a concern. So, again, a lot of things we've touched on in this episode as well as previous episodes. You might see less indulgence in girlish activities and mannerisms. In contrast, obviously, boyish girls would become more accepting of their own feminine traits. You may hear them say things like, “I'm happy to be a boy” (for boys) or “I'm happy to be a girl” (for girls). They will show or even express through their actions being more comfortable in their bodies, they will become more confident. They will be more comfortable in their gender identity and having a sense of satisfaction in being one of the guys/boys or girls.

Also, they might show signs of increased self-esteem overall, positive feelings about themselves, about their body, about their personality, just about life in general, and about being able to tackle the tasks/challenges of daily life. They'll become more secure in who they are as people, and become more mature and less shy and self-conscious and less self-preoccupied. They will become more real and more emotionally connected and appropriately responsive to other people. And finally, they will also show signs of being less anxious or depressed and be less nervous and uneasy about themselves and also other people. There might be fewer behavioral problems, like temper tantrums and emotional outbursts, and less withdrawn behavior and more engagement with the wider family and with friends and so on.

Waheed  1:39:45
Absolutely. And of course, it's very important to mention that this is not a linear process. It's very twisted. It has many ups and downs. There will be resistance, temper tantrums, rejection and rebellion, especially at the beginning. Some days are going to be better than others. Some days there'll be lots of strides and successes, only to realize that, a couple of days later, maybe the child/adolescent has regressed. Expect them to go two steps forward and one step backward. And know that, when they're feeling happy and affirmed by others, they're doing great, and when they're stressed and pressured, maybe fatigued or sick or what have you, they're likely to witness regression. So, all of this is normal. And as Joseph Nicolosi used to tell parents, and I'm quoting him “Know that this is going to be a long haul, and it may possibly get more painful before it gets better.” This basically applies to life in general, so what matters is that you seek help from Allah, you work together as a parental team, you seek support from your support system and from a therapist or a counselor, and be patient, consistent and persevere. Build healthy and strong bonds with your child. Build the proper emotional attachment and have tawakkul on Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. Again, we're asked to do our parts, and the rest is up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala.

1:41:13
We have officially come to the end of the four-episode series dedicated to parents and family members. We hope that you have found these four episodes eye opening, enlightening, practical and useful to you in your individual case. Of course, cases are different, there's no one-size-fits-all approach, but there are general ideas and foundations to consider that are helpful for all of us. So, we talked about personal healing, which is the foundation to all of this work. Taking care of yourself, grieving, stopping the blame and self-accusations, stepping into your child's world. Learning about his/her struggles and pains, understanding their stories, practicing unconditional love. And we spoke about this in detail back in episode 79. As you remember, seeking forgiveness from yourself and others, doing your own healing work together with your spouse if possible. Experiencing God's love and trying your best to maintain balance in your life. All of these are important. 

And then we spoke about relational healing in episodes 80 and 81. We started with understanding the foundations and concepts related to gender development, how gender confusion develops, family dynamics, parental wounds, sibling wounds, peer wounds, abuse, and God wounds in relation to the development of same-sex attractions and gender dysphoria. And then we went into practical tips for fathers and mothers and siblings and family members. Whether you are dealing with a young boy or a young girl with gender confusion and nonconformity, or with an adolescent who experiences same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria, or a young adult who is struggling with this or he/she is “coming out” and so on. And then, in today's episode, we covered communal healing, and how to use all of this knowledge to help others and build support systems and resources in our communities. And we answered frequently-asked questions on the topics presented. 

What we hope that you realize after all of these episodes is the importance of education and awareness to you as parents, and knowing these matters to be able to deal with them, but also at a community level. And we also cannot stress this enough: We seek help from Allah continuously, we ask Him to help and guide us, to give us patience and strength, and to always remember that we have to do the work, but the fruit of our labor is on Him. We may live to see that in our lives, or we may not, and that's not what's important. We give our best, and the rest is up to Him. What matters is that we develop patience, strength, resilience, humility and tawakkul. And we embrace challenges with an open heart, because when Allah loves someone, He tries them with what they can handle. So, the fact that you are dealing with this means that Allah knows that you can handle it, inshaAllah. 

So basically, this wraps up our series for parents and family members. And this is the last episode that Aadam is going to be joining me throughout this podcast. We're wrapping up the podcast in a few more episodes, inshaAllah. Aadam, I would like to sincerely thank you and say, jazak Allah khairan for all of your help since day one. Again, this whole idea of the podcast came from you, jazak Alla khairan, you've been such a wonderful guest and co-host, jazak Allah khairan. You're such a gem, and I'm so proud of you, and I'm so grateful to have you as a friend and brother. I love you, man. You're amazing. Any last words that you would like to give the listeners? 

Aadam  1:44:29
Oh, I love you too, and it's been quite a journey, subhan Allah, over the last two years or so. I would just say for the listeners, never lose hope no matter what the situation is. And this is for all of the parents who may be listening to this, or even people who are experiencing gender dysphoria or SSA listening to this episode, that this is a challenging journey, but we have to be persistent and consistent in our effort, and always be clear about why we're striving. Islam is very easy, because it's all about Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. He is the North Star; He is the compass. It is to Him that we will be returning, and it is from Him that we have come. So, you know, subhan Allah, He makes it very easy for us, there's not very much more to think about. 

I just pray that Allah gives us the courage and the language and the ability to share this with other people. To stand up for this as well, because so much of the modern world is attacking this perspective of these issues, and we need our own spaces where we can deal with these things. And I would hate to think that we were doing it underground, or that we would get to a point where it's worse than what it is at the moment. I don't want to see that. And I don't think that we should settle for that either, inshaAllah. And that's going to require effort on part of everybody in the community. It's not just for the people who are experiencing SSA or who are affected by it. It's for everyone to stand up. So may Allah give us a true understanding of His religion and firm foundations upon what do we actually believe in and stand for, and also the courage to stand up for ourselves, and to be as loud as some of these other groups who have demanded their rights over years and years and years, which we've not really done, particularly in the West - I can’t talk for the Muslim world, it is a different context - But the West, Europe and the US. 

May Allah bless you all, thank you. I've loved being on this, alhamdulillah, it's been great. And I've learned so much through the process as well, and I’ll miss coming on these episodes.

Waheed  1:47:03
I’ll miss you too! Subhan Allah, may Allah bless you, and I echo everything that you said, jazak Allah khairan. It's been a pleasure having you, and this has been, subhan Allah, such a wonderful journey. May Allah bless you. And for everyone who has been listening to us, you can always email Adam and me on awaybeyondtherainbow(AT)gmail(DOT)com. We'd love to read your emails, answer your questions, or if you just like to say “assalamu alaikom!” or if you have any questions or if you'd like to tell us about your own experiences, we're always there, inshaAllah. 

And this is a wrap up to our series for parents and family members. In the next episode, inshaAllah, we are going to talk about relevant themes to spouses of men and women who experience same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria. Until next episode, stay safe and healthy. This has been Aadam and Waheed in “A Way Beyond the Rainbow”, assalamu alaikom warahmatullahi ta’ala wabarakatuh.