#83 - For Current and Potential Spouses

This episode is dedicated to current and potential spouses of individuals experiencing gender nonconformity, same-sex attractions and/or gender dysphoria.

In this episode, I read out survey responses sent by members of the online Straight Struggle community addressing current and potential spouses, and we discuss pertinent themes for spouses and answer frequently-asked questions. Why didn't he/she inform me before marriage and wait until now? Will he/she ever change? How do I deal with other people's opinions and judgments, particularly those coming from family? How do I deal with my insecurity and jealousy from my husband seeing other men or being with them, even though I know that there’s nothing sexual or intimate going on? I discovered my spouse has a porn and masturbation addiction, or he’s sexually acting out and has a sex addiction, what should I do? These and other relevant questions are explored in this episode.

References used and resources mentioned in this episode:

- Gay Children, Straight Parents: A Plan for Family Healing by Richard Cohen

International support systems for family members (including spouses):
- Straight Struggle support group (online, Muslim-based, international)
- Strong Support's "Spouses Support Circle" (Muslim-based, UK and international)
- Positive Approaches To Healthy Sexuality (PATHS)
- Brothers Road (US and international), including resources for wives, "A Woman Who Loves" (retreat), "A Woman's Heart" (coaching), relevant Facebook groups, and webinar
- North Star Alliance (Mormon-based, international), including Voices of Hope and Journeys of Faith

Relevant articles:
- ‘What I Wish My Wife Understood About My Same-Sex Attraction’: What Men Say
- ‘What I Wish My Husband Understood About How His Same-Sex Attraction Affects Me’: What Women Say

For porn and sexual compulsive behaviors:
- Counseling services: Sexual Recovery Institute, Purify Your Gaze (Muslim organization), Life Star Network, Bethesda Workshops
- Information for Spouses and Partners of Sex Addicts
- Other helpful resources: Sexaholics Anonymous (SA), NoFap (main website, Reddit “NoFap” forum, Reddit "Muslim NoFap" forum)
- Coffee With Karim podcast episode 59: "My Spouse has a Pornography Addiction" with guest speaker Zeyad Ramadan

Transcript

Waheed  00:38
Assalamu alaikom wa rahmatullahi ta’ala wa barakatuh, and welcome back to “A Way Beyond the Rainbow”, this podcast series dedicated to Muslims experiencing same-sex attractions who want to live a life true to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala and Islam. I'm your host, Waheed Jensen, and thank you for joining me in today's episode. In today’s episode, we continue our series addressing the larger community. As you remember, in the previous episodes, we had a four-episode series dedicated to parents and family members of individuals who experience same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria. And today’s episode is dedicated to current and potential spouses and fiances of men and women who experience same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria.

If you’re listening to this episode and you belong to the target audience of this episode, then you’ve probably discovered your spouse or fiance’s SSA through one of the following scenarios: Maybe he/she sat down with you and told you after a long time of being married. Or, if you’re engaged, he/she wanted to tell you before you’re officially married. Maybe you came across their search history or found particular emails or messages that gave you a hint. Maybe you discovered that they watch gay porn or caught them masturbating to it. Maybe you found out they attend 12-step meetings or take part in online or face-to-face support groups to help them deal with their SSA/GD, porn or sex addictions, or what have you. Maybe you’ve always had an inkling given their particular proclivities or interests in music, movies, particular events, hobbies, their circle of friends, and so on. Maybe he/she is not that intimate with you and struggles in that area. Maybe he/she is too emotionally attached to that “one special friend” that they neglect you and your needs. You may have discovered an affair with another man, or he came clean to you and admitted that. Maybe you got an STD from that affair that you never knew about, and he was forced to admit his affair. Or he may have showed up one day, packed his bags and told you and the kids that he’s leaving you for another man, that he’s been “living a lie”, and needs to “live out his truth”.

And of course, how you navigate that depends on how you both choose to move forward with this. There are different layers of complexity, depending on whether or not your spouse wants to remain in the relationship or is adamant about calling it quits, if there are children involved, to what extent your spouse is willing to do the work and seek help, to what extent you are willing to do your own work and seek help (yes, you, and we will talk more about this in this episode), what resources are available to you, and so on. The situation is clearly different between a spouse who has these attractions and has never acted upon them, or maybe did before marriage but not while being married, vs. someone who’s acted upon them while being married but is feeling remorseful and wants to make things work, vs. someone whos’ sleeping around and doesn’t care, and even when confronted with this, they’re adamant about their behaviors.

There’s so much to learn about yourself and your spouse, and there’s work that can be done if and when you’re ready. I’ve prepared a couple of episodes to address this, primarily this episode, as well as the two upcoming episodes where I interview Dr. Ty Mansfield and his wife Danielle. Ty is a man who experiences same-sex attractions and is in a mixed-orientation marriage, and he and his wife share with us lot of gems from their own individual and joint experiences. Today, we focus on understanding concepts, building foundations, and answering frequently-asked questions. Whatever your situation is, and whatever context applies to you, I hope and pray that you will find these episodes helpful and eye-opening inshaAllah.

04:47
Last summer, we conducted an anonymous survey on the Straight Struggle support group, which is an online support group for men and women experiencing same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria. We’ve asked them many questions on what they would like to tell their family members and community. I’m going to read out the answers they gave to the question, “What would you tell your spouse if you had the chance? What do you wish they would know?”

One member said, “That SSA is not voluntary and that acceptance and empathy is key. Support and understanding is what a person needs. The person with SSA never intended on keeping it a secret from their spouse if it weren’t for our culture, traditions and negative image that SSA has in most cultures.” Another member said, “I have been struggling my whole life because of my sexuality and I need your help to support me during the therapy process.” A third one said, “If I could, I just want to tell her that I'm willing to make it work despite my SSA (as I see marriage not for "cure" or for cover up, I really want to build a family). I know that I need to be completely selfless if I ever get married and prioritize my spouse's well being.”

Another member answered, “I’m not sure I need her to know anything. I suppose it would be nice if she knew and was supportive but I do worry that this would be something that could be misunderstood and could be brought up during conflicts.” Another one said, “I love you, that will never change. We connect on every level imaginable, even if I may not express it enough. I know I am not the perfect husband, but I promise I want to be. I especially appreciate your love and kindness that I have been longing for my whole life. It has helped fill a huge crater in my heart and has been a source of healing and a blessing from the Most Merciful. Allah chose SSA as my struggle in this life, I would love to tell you about it so we can help each other continue on this journey towards Jannah. Your support means so much to me, but I am terrified of what your rejection may do to me, so for now, it’s my struggle alone.”

Another member answered, “If I were to ever get married, I would like my spouse to know that I’m fighting every single day against my desires, and it can be draining, and that all I want from you is for you to be understanding and supportive of me.” And another one answered, “For my potential future wife, I would like for her to know that my sexual desires do not define the extent of my ability to love. That, me being attracted to men doesn’t negate my capacity to be a loving husband. We all deserve to be loved and embraced and cherished thanks to what makes us struggle the most.”

And finally, another member wrote in, “If you discover that your spouse struggles with SSA, do not take this as a sign that he/she doesn't love you or that he/she has betrayed you. Know that there are usually very deep emotional and psychological wounds involved, and that your spouse has likely suffered a great deal throughout his/her life on account of them. If he/she is a sincere, practicing Muslim, know that they most likely married you in good faith, desiring to build a righteous home and family with you on the basis of Allah's deen and the Sunnah of His messenger (PBUH). As Muslims, we should not accept the gay identity paradigm that is being pushed everywhere by today's society. This is a Western cultural narrative that does not come from Islam. Do not think, "My husband is GAY. Why did he marry me? He fooled me / lied to me." Rather, your husband is a man and is doing his best to fill his role as one (and vice versa for a woman). It can certainly come as a shock to anyone to find out that his/her spouse deals with SSA. It is normal to be angry, confused, and hurt, especially at the beginning. But before calling it quits, give yourself time to heal, then try to see things from your spouse's perspective. Know that it is a very difficult test, and if your spouse has SSA and has chosen not to act on it, then he/she is likely a very special person with some excellent qualities and high character -- probably the qualities and character that attracted you to him/her in the first place. Take time to talk through things honestly, and seek help as needed to figure out the best way to move forward in your marriage. (Note that this advice is for people whose spouses struggle with SSA but who do not act on it, i.e., they are not running around behind their spouse's back, engaging in immoral -- and often risky -- behaviors with members of the same sex, etc. IF the spouse with SSA is doing these things, then that is a different issue. These cases will have to be dealt with just like other cases of infidelity. There is no free pass just because someone has SSA and says they "had no other outlet.")”

So these were the survey answers, and one can see that, for many, not telling their spouse that they have SSA was not a deliberate act of deception or lying; there are layers of shame and fear of rejection attached to it. There is also an emphasis on understanding, support, kindness, and realizing that we are more than our desires, more than our attractions, and that a mixed-orientation marriage has the potential to work beautifully if both sides put in the work needed to make it work, just like with every other marriage. 

10:43
Whether you are in the stage of shock and are looking for resources, or if you’ve known for a while and are seeking help now, wherever you might be, there’s so much to learn about your spouse and about yourself in the process. Of course, it’s more common that you’d be the wife of a man with same-sex attraction than it is for you to be the husband of a woman who experiences same-sex attractions; obviously, the dynamics are different. But in this episode, we address all spouses regardless, and you can see what works for you given your own individual situation.

In the past four episodes, my friend Aadam and I discussed relevant themes for parents and families of men and women who experience same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria, and there are lots of helpful information and resources in there that I encourage you to check out. A lot of the information you need to know is already discussed there in great detail, so I would encourage you to go back and listen to these episodes.

In episode 79, we talked about personal healing, which is the foundation to all of this work. Taking care of yourself, grieving, and stopping the blame and self-accusations. These are relevant for you, particularly if this is all fresh to you and you’re in the initial stages of navigating the shock and dealing with grief. Please check out episode 79 for lots of details and helpful tips. We also talk about stepping into their world, learning about their struggles and pains, understanding their stories, and practicing unconditional love, seeking forgiveness from yourself and others, and doing your own healing work together, if possible, as well as experiencing God's love and trying your best to maintain balance in your life. All of these are important in this journey. There are a lot of blessings in disguise in this trial, and you can begin to see them and experience them when you open your heart and mind to doing your own work, believe it or not. Again, all of this is discussed in detail in episode 79.

Moving on, in episodes 80 and 81, we spoke about relational healing. We started with understanding the foundations and concepts related to gender development, how gender confusion develops, family dynamics, parental wounds, sibling wounds, peer wounds, abuse, and God wounds in relation to the development of same-sex attractions and gender dysphoria. And then we went into practical tips for family members. Of course, these episodes were framed from the perspective of parents and direct family members, but a lot of the information presented is helpful for spouses as well. I encourage you to make use of whatever information you find helpful, and whatever is not relevant for your case, you can just skip. And finally, in episode 82, we covered communal healing and how to use all of the knowledge presented to help others and build support systems and resources in our communities, and we answered frequently-asked questions on the topics presented. Again, there are lots of helpful information, tips, resources and relevant themes that are worth checking out, inshaAllah.

However, there are a few important distinctions worth making here that do not overlap with the advice given to parents in the previous episodes. Our advice to parents was all about practicing unconditional love, to never sever the relationship with their kids, to be there for them while setting healthy boundaries and standing firm with their values and beliefs. With spouses, it’s not necessarily the same. If you are the spouse of someone who recently told you they experience SSA, or you discovered this about them in one way or another, and they disclosed this to you and explained that they need your help, they’re trying their best to stay true to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala and Islam, that they’re going to do whatever it takes to make the marriage work and to be there for you and the kids, that is a completely different situation from one where your spouse is having one affair after the other and is not willing to make changes, seek help or work on his marriage. There’s a limit as to how much you can tolerate that, and it depends on you and your family, and of course, Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala - His limits and boundaries are being transgressed here, and there’s thulm (oppression) taking place. Of course, nuance is important here, otherwise it sounds like the person with SSA, no matter what he/she has actually done, is always the victim here, the one who it's all about, the only one whose perspective needs to be understood and sympathized with, etc. That can sound like special pleading or excusing people's bad choices (which go beyond the fact that they were saddled with SSA beyond their own original choice). Unfortunately, that’s the narrative that we’re used to nowadays. Gay exceptionalism is a thing, and if they want to go around doing whatever they want, they’re living out their “true and authentic self”, and we applaud them if they leave their families and live out their “truth”. Honestly, that’s a load of bullshit, and we need to be reasonable here. 

So, if your fiance has told you because he/she wants to be honest with you before going into marriage, or if your spouse told you early on or way later in the marriage, and they’re seeking your support and understanding, they’re willing to put in the work for personal and relational healing, as well as doing their best to make the marriage work, then I sincerely hope and pray that you find it in your heart to stay in the relationship and make things work, because you’ll not only be helping the other person, you’ll be helping yourself in the process by learning so much about yourself through doing your own healing and recovery work. I’m not here to tell you what’s right or what’s wrong, it’s ultimately your choice, and no one can decide for you. We seek help from Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala, we continue to ask Him for guidance, and we seek proper therapy and counseling to help us navigate the shock, pain and grief. But is this relationship going to work? We definitely hope so, inshaAllah. Especially if both of you are willing to work together, just like with every other marriage relationship out there. 

I know men and women who experience same-sex attractions who are in mixed-orientation marriages, with or without kids, and who are living happy and fulfilled lives, alhamdulillah. Some got divorced for reasons that had nothing to do with their SSA, just like with any other married couple who chose to divorce for their own reasons. Some are celibate and hoping to get married in the future, others are celibate and fulfilled with their own lives. Sometimes we put too much emphasis on SSA that we lose sight of the bigger picture, and sometimes we blame SSA as the one and only reason why a marriage has failed or is bound to fail. It doesn’t have to be that way. 

And please resist the urge to believe every story you hear from people who were in mixed-orientation marriages and the spouse with SSA left the marriage to “live his/her truth” and be with his/her partner in an “authentic relationship”. It can get demoralizing when you go down that rabbit hole, so spare yourself. Don’t forget that the media amplifies these stories because there’s an obvious agenda at play here. Focus on you and your spouse (and your kids if you have any), and most importantly, on Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. Put Him front and center, and move forward together with your spouse based on what you both choose. That’s what matters. 

Now if your spouse is not willing to listen, they’re adamant about living the lifestyle they please, regardless of whatever damage it causes you and the kids, then boundaries have to be set. I’m not here to tell you to leave the marriage or to stay in it. Ultimately, you have to make a decision that serves you and your family, and most importantly, Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. But I hope that you would at least take some time to educate yourself on the topic, learn more, study and read before you make any rash decisions. You also need to have an honest and transparent discussion with your spouse. Do they want to keep living this way? If yes, then what? If not, how do we move on from here? Maybe invite them to listen to this podcast and join our support groups? Maybe they had no idea an “alternative reality” exists for people like them? After all, maybe that’s the only thing they know, they have no idea that other options exist for them, right?

Some spouses, in your situation, before making any decisions on whether or not to stay or leave, decided first to address the “wounded parts” of them and their spouse and do the healing work together, and they postponed the decision of separation/divorce/staying in the marriage until later on when they felt they’ve done enough work on themselves to be able to make such a decision. Some chose to separate for a while but still decided to hold space for the other person, especially if kids were involved. So these are some things to think about.

What I’m trying to say from all this is that there are so many scenarios and layers, no two situations are the same, and only you and your spouse can decide how to move forward. And, frankly, sometimes you have to be the more mature one, since, especially if they’re in that “honeymoon phase” of being “out and proud” and whatever, they tend to behave immaturely - as kids, really - and would probably be resistant to any counseling or support you or anyone else may give. Take time, pray and make du’aas (supplications), consult with professionals and support groups on the matter, seek help for you and your spouse, and be patient in the process. And again, don’t listen to others who are a source of negativity, demoralization, and noise. God knows there are tons of people like that who won’t shut up. You need to set boundaries and cut the noise. And don’t even think twice about it.

If you’ve been listening to this podcast series from early on, you’ve probably learned that the overwhelming majority of gay relationships do not last. If your husband is happy with another man, one or both of them are going to become tired of the other and will soon walk out the door. Promiscuity and open relationships are rampant in the gay world, and this only fuels the traumas of abandonment, inadequacy and insecurity further. If your wife - and this is not a common scenario but could happen - is happy with another woman, there’s probably an emotionally-enmeshed and codependent relationship going on that will end up suffocating one or both of them and perpetuating even more hurt and pain. There’s so much pain and trauma in the gay world that is not acknowledged of course, and this only ends up propagating more hurt and trauma. 

And a final point worth mentioning here, if your spouse is sleeping around and having affairs, please get tested for STD’s and make sure you’re absolutely clear on that. And you have every right to refuse intercourse until he gets his act together, is STD-free himself, and is committed to your marriage and to doing the work necessary. That’s just an FYI that needs to be highlighted.

21:49
Other than listening to the past few episodes and checking out the resources included in them, it’s very important to establish your own support system as a spouse of someone experiencing same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria. In the episode show notes, you will find links to many support groups for you as a spouse or family member. Let me tell you briefly about them, and you can check them out at your own time and pace.

We have recently opened a channel on our Straight Struggle online support group for parents, family members and spouses of men and women who experience SSA/GD, and we have lots of helpful conversations going on, so you’re welcome to join anytime, ask questions, share your story and even help others if you like. Also, the organization “Strong Support” run by Br. Ali Jaafery in the UK has a support circle for spouses as well, you can register with them and join other spouses as well.

In addition, Brothers Road, an organization founded by Rich Wyler, has lots of resources for men experiencing same-sex attractions as well as their spouses. I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with Rich back in episode 32, so check it out to learn more about Brothers Road and Journey into Manhood weekends. What’s interesting is that they have support groups for spouses as well, I’ll add links to those in the episode description for you to check out. There are also organizations like 12-step programs, “Life Star Network”, “Bethesda Workshops” and others that can be helpful for you if your spouse deals with porn or sex addictions.

In addition, I’m going to add links to “Voices of Hope” and “Northstar International”, these are wonderful initiatives created by the Mormon community to help men and women who experience same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria, as well as their spouses and families. There are lots of helpful resources there. And, of course, in the next two episodes, Ty Mansfield and his wife Danielle will tell us more about these, inshaAllah.

It goes without saying that seeking support is important for you, as you will have people to speak with and get counsel from, and they’ll form your support system to lean on when things get tough. You can also help others in your own shoes, so it goes both ways. There’s so much healing when we’re surrounded by people who know exactly what we’re going through, and we can help each other navigate that territory. 

Of course, another venue of support is through therapy and counseling, and I definitely encourage you to seek that whenever possible. Try and find a therapist who shares your same values or at least respects your belief system and goals and can help you move in the direction you choose. Seek individual therapy for you as well as couples therapy or marriage counseling to work on your marriage. Of course, the latter is a shared decision and has to come from the both of you. And as much as you might be tempted to do that, please avoid coercion, force, manipulation, ultimatums or what have you to force your spouse to join you in therapy or work on your marriage. If it doesn’t come from within, it’s not going to be genuine, and it won’t help.

So that’s as far as support systems for you. What about your spouse who’s experiencing same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria? There are many support systems that are available to help him/her depending on where they are in their journey and what they need. For this, I recommend you check out episodes 27 all the way to 35, particularly the ones on Straight Struggle and Strong Support. Your spouse would greatly benefit from therapy that addresses his/her deep wounds and traumas, and we’ve spoken about this in previous episodes. So finding an appropriate therapist to help out is important. There’s also a need for same-sex mentors and healthy friendships, as well as healing work that involves parents, siblings and friends; all of this we’ve spoken about in the previous two episodes, so make sure to check them out to learn more about all of this. 

25:53
A very important component of any relationship, especially a marriage relationship, and particularly after discovering a spouse’s SSA, is proper and honest communication. If you haven’t had the chance to communicate with your spouse your thoughts and feelings, to practice vulnerability and to foster an environment of transparency without judgment, now is the time to do that. We’ve spoken a lot about this in the second half of episode 81, so check it out when you can. We spoke about techniques like reflective listening, practicing empathy in thoughts and empathy in feelings, techniques for conflict resolution, giving affirmations, setting boundaries, as well as learning each other’s love language and using that to nourish your relationship. Of course, if you struggle with your communication, stating your needs, and setting boundaries, getting professional help, like therapy, counseling or mentorship, is necessary. Your therapist, counselor, mentor or support system can help you with that, inshaAllah.

It’s important to develop the ability to have honest and heart-to-heart conversations with your spouse and learn how to navigate them with proper self-regulation, empathy and understanding. All of this is not easy and requires time, patience and hard work. Hence, it’s necessary to involve a professional with you, particularly if all of this is new territory for you. 

When you have time, I encourage you to check out several episodes in the podcast that are helpful for you and your spouse: In episodes 2 and 3, we spoke about self-compassion, shame and vulnerability. These are important themes to learn about, whether we experience SSA or not. In episodes 7-12, we dive deep into the genesis of SSA/GD and the therapeutic models, so these are helpful to learn about to gain a better understanding of where all of this comes from. Episodes 14-26 are dedicated to the spiritual dimension, we put things in proper spiritual perspectives as we see all this from the lens of trials and tribulations, attachments and surrender, temptation and sin, the need for healthy and platonic same-sex love, as well as other relevant spiritual and Islamic themes. Episodes 27-35 are all about support systems as I’ve mentioned before, and episodes 36-40 are about marriage, intimacy and sex, so they’re quite helpful for you to check out in this context, particularly to learn the needs of the spouse with SSA as well as how to cultivate more intimacy in your lives and navigate any challenges that occur in that regard. 

Episodes 41 all the way to 65 are all about the actual healing and recovery work, there are tons of helpful resources in there for you and your spouse to check out. And in this season, from episodes 66 all the way until this episode, we talk about relevant socio political themes as well as Islamic and Shar’i perspectives related to same-sex attractions and gender dysphoria, as well as topics relevant to families and the community at large. All of the episodes have written transcripts that you can find on the podcast website. That’s the podcast in a nutshell, and I hope and pray that you find many answers and helpful guidance in the episodes so far, inshaAllah.

It’s normal for many spouses, when they’re working on their healing and recovery, to put their sex life on the side and focus on the work for the moment. That’s something you get to decide with your spouse, as long as you’re both on the same page. In addition, the more you do the work, the more you’ll discover about your “dance” dynamics with your spouse (i.e. relationship dynamics) - maybe there’s codependency going on, maybe one or both of you are emotionally dependent on the other, maybe one of you is the rescuer/caretaker and the other is attention-seeking and dependent. Realizing this helps you discover how to move forward and develop healthy and interdependent relationship dynamics.

It also needs to be pointed out that, while doing the work, and particularly at initial stages, you might be overwhelmed by your spouse’s constant sharing or over-sharing, maybe constantly seeking help or attention and affection, you might feel that it’s too much, you’re smothered and the like. That’s where proper communication skills come in. You can say something like, “Honey, I’m happy to listen as you know, but now I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed. Can we take a break for now until I’m ready again?” Make this about you using “I” statements instead of accusatory “you” statements (Like “you’re too much!” or “you’re driving me crazy” – avoid saying that), state your needs clearly and set your own boundaries. If he’s not making time for you, pick the right time and have a conversation about it. “Honey, I realize you’re doing the work and making new friends, but I feel left out a lot, we’re not spending time like we used to. We need time for ourselves. How about more date nights or movie nights at home?” Something like that. Also, no shaming, blaming or accusations, that will backfire. So, again, proper communication skills are key, and having your own support system and therapist to help you with this are important as well.

And it’s crucial to mention this as well: Having tough conversations, practicing proper communication skills, reading books, attending support groups and counseling, all of that requires an element of feeling safe. Safety first. If you feel safe with your spouse, you can communicate your thoughts and feelings and they can do the same. If you can’t feel safe, then pause until you can. And seek help in the process.

Sometimes you might be dealing with a lack of trust in your spouse, and you might be asking, “How do we build trust in our marriage or restore it?” Something that Richard Wyler said in a webinar for spouses is very relevant here, he said, “There’s unconditional love, but there’s no unconditional trust.” Meaning that trust is earned, it’s not given without conditions. Trust is earned through baby steps. Honest and transparent communication. By taking responsibility for one’s words and behaviors, by committing to doing the work and focusing on one’s family. By being honest and practicing integrity. When you start to see healthy and positive changes in the relationship dynamic, that’s when you can start to regain that trust. And a therapist and your support system can help you navigate that as well. And please realize that we all make mistakes, just because we fall doesn’t mean all trust is lost and there’s no way to earn it back. What matters is that we get back up, make tawbah, and move together on the path towards Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala, right?

Another related theme or question is “How do we restore intimacy?” Again, it happens step-by-step, it doesn’t take place overnight. Rebuilding trust goes hand-in-hand with restoring intimacy. Also, realize that intimacy is much more than sexual intimacy. There’s emotional intimacy as well, you can cultivate intimacy through different love languages, for example. In addition, a key component as I mentioned to restoring trust and intimacy is feeling safe as a baseline. Once you feel safe, you can work on the other dynamics. Work on communicating how you would like to feel treasured and intimate, what you would like your spouse to tell you or do for you, for example. Ask your spouse what they need to feel treasured and intimate as well. And finally, decide together what is the kind of marriage that you both want (and not what others want from you - be they parents or extended family or friends or whoever). And your definition of marriage and relationship dynamics may change over time, as long as you both are safe and feeling content with your relationship, that’s what matters.

Trust me on this, when you do your own work, you will realize a lot of things about you and your own family, a lot of the issues that you experienced growing up that you may have had no idea about to begin with. You find out about who you truly are and your purpose in this life, and how you can cultivate the best version of yourself in line with your values and purpose. A chance to get over your own ego and do your own work of healing, tazkiyah and purification of the heart. You also get to stop the “dance” you’re doing with your spouse and no longer pass it onto the next generation. In other words, you finally break the cycle of intergenerational trauma that’s recycled across generations. There’s healing and recovery for the both of you. Now tell me that that’s not a blessing in disguise?

35:03
In the remainder of this episode, I’m going to address frequently-asked questions from spouses of men and women who experience same-sex attractions or gender dysphoria. 

One common question is, “Why didn’t he tell me before marriage? Why wait until we got married?” And this is more common for men with SSA, obviously, but it can apply to both men and women. As we’ve mentioned earlier in the episode, in the overwhelming majority of cases, particularly if the man is a decent human being, not telling was not intended as an act of manipulation, deception or lying. Some men would say something like “I didn’t know that I could!” and he was afraid of your judgment, rejection or you thinking less of him or differently about him. Maybe he thought that marriage would solve the issue, that being sexually intimate with a spouse would solve it - believe me, I’ve received lots of emails from brothers who thought that was the “magic cure”, or were convinced by their families or local imams that it was the “magic cure”, but it never is. Maybe he was afraid that, if you knew, you’d leave him or even tell others in his family or community, and that’s something you can never undo. Or maybe he thought it’s not a big deal, he has it under control, why bring up something that’s not necessarily going to affect his relationship with you, particularly if he is attracted to you and can make this relationship work. There are lots of reasons why he didn’t share, so again, we encourage you to try and see things from his eyes, even though it’s normal to feel shocked, angry or betrayed. Please process this together and communicate about it, and involve a therapist or counselor if you need to. That is highly encouraged.

Another question is, particularly from wives of men with same-sex attractions, “Is it because of me that he’s like this? Like did his relationship with me turn him away from desiring me and instead he started desiring men?” No, honey, that’s not the case. This took place way before he met you, it has nothing to do with you. If you check out the previous episodes and learn more about where SSA or GD comes from, you’ll realize that he has been dealing with deep issues for God knows how long, and it has nothing to do with you. What you can do is to actually help him realize where this might come from and help him seek proper support to deal with his issues. That’s where you can be a positive influence, inshaAllah. Also, another point worth keeping in mind: A lot of times we end up blaming or scapegoating SSA for any and all problems in the marriage relationship, when clearly that’s not fair. Marriage is hard for anyone, whether they have SSA or not. Many husbands and wives struggle with their work-life balance, intimacy and sex lives, desires, friendships, family and so on. We’re all human at the end of the day, and we have our own share of trials and tribulations. Of course, there are particular challenges that come with SSA within the context of marriage, but with proper help and guidance, these can be worked through, inshaAllah. So let’s not blame everything on SSA.

There’s also this question that we’ve addressed in the previous episode for parents and families, but it’s worth answering here again briefly, “Will change happen? Will my spouse change?” It’s important to understand what you mean by “change”. Do you mean that their same-sex attractions are going to diminish and/or their opposite-sex attractions are going to increase? That may happen, or it may not happen. Instead of being too caught up in the idea of “change”, our advice is for you to refocus that question and ask yourself, “What is it that really matters to my spouse and me? What matters for the both of us?” Again, when you start to do the work and your spouse starts to do the work, you will start to see changes. And by “changes”, we mean so many different things as discussed before. That could be change in behavior, meaning no longer committing homosexual acts or being enslaved to sexual desires; change in motivation, from initial fear and shame to a love for God and desire to follow Him; change in identity, meaning no longer identifying with the gay identity and recognizing that we’re Muslims and servants of God, that we’re sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, husbands and wives, men and women; change in attitude from feeling “victimized” and “rejected”, to being emotionally healed and filled with gratitude and joy; there’s also change in relationships with men and women, to be able to develop healthy nonsexual relationships with those of the same sex; and, most importantly, change in relationship with Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. A lot of us used to view Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala as angry, uninvolved, uncaring, a negative figure. And now we see Him as a loving Creator. We have a very deep and connected relationship with Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So, all of these are attainable outcomes, inshaAllah, through the grace of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. 

And some people can achieve and have achieved changes in their homosexual orientation or their gender dysphoria. Some have achieved a state where their same-sex attractions were able to diminish significantly. Others were able to achieve a state where their opposite-sex attractions become more materialized. All of these are on a spectrum, but what matters is what we mean by “change”; if we are able to get to a point where we can heal our wounds, grow, recover, become more in tune with our gender identity, our own physical bodies, develop healthy relationships with members of the same sex, these are all wonderful things. 

So please keep all of this in mind, don't get fixated on wanting your spouse to become “straight” or whatever. This is very reductionistic. There are so many layers attached to that. What we need to do, again, is do the work and leave it up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala for Him to allow the results to manifest themselves. We all have different ways of living our lives, as long as we keep Allah front and center, and we dedicate our lives to Him, regardless of where we are, what we do, etc. What matters is Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So please keep this in mind.

A follow-up question would be, “I'm doing the work and I'm trying my best. I'm implementing all the techniques that I can, will my efforts succeed?” This is a question we addressed in the previous episode, I’m repeating it here briefly as well. We need to remember that we are taught in Islam to do the necessary work in all areas of life according to our abilities, to seek Allah's pleasure and approval, and to rest assured that Allah will take care of the results, whether we see the fruits of our labor in this lifetime or not, that's not up to us, it's up to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So, as such, the outcome that we seek in this dunya is no longer the end result, but Allah’s ridha, His approval, His acceptance is our goal. And when we think about that, that creates a paradigm shift, because everything that I work on is for the sake of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. And, inshaAllah, He rewards me for it, and, inshaAllah, I seek His ridha and His contentment. And ultimately, He is the One who decides how things turn out, regardless whether they turn out to be as we would like them to or not, we're going to be content anyway, because we know that we've done our best, and He takes care of everything. So keep this in mind. Our duty is to do the work for His sake, to seek His support, and then the rest is up to Him. 

You do what’s within your capacity - your capacity to love, to give attention, time, touch and talk that we spoke about, the ability to encourage your spouse to develop healing friendships, attend therapy, counseling, to engage in support groups and group sports. Everything that is within your capacity that you can take care of, that is what you should be doing. Needless to say, the keys to success in this are patience, consistency and a positive attitude and tawakkul on Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala, constantly seeking His help in the process. Practice the wealth of skills that you will learn and have learned, and keep a positive attitude. Pray for Allah’s intervention and guidance, and, eventually, inshaAllah, there will be a change in your family system. It's a healing journey, not a destination. 

Also, it's important to remember that the responsibility for “change” is not on anyone. You don't change anyone, I don't change anybody, nobody changes anyone. You create love, intimacy and a safe space. We cannot individually change anyone. Only Allah changes the people. Remember that you can change yourself only. And put your faith in Allah, do your best and never give up.

Another question is, “My spouse and I are seeing a therapist, and the therapist boldly said that we’re never going to be happy unless we have an open marriage or we get a divorce. That my spouse with SSA is living a lie and that our marriage is a sham.” If that’s the case, you need to realize a few things: First of all, regardless of the therapist’s values or belief system, he/she has no right to make judgments or accusations about you or your relationship. A professional therapist works with you based on your goals, value system and what you hope to achieve. If the therapist is pro-LGBT and gay affirmative, doesn’t see the value in your marriage and is encouraging your husband to have an open relationship or to get a divorce, then FIRE this therapist. You need to realize that the therapist is working for you, and you’re actually paying him/her. You have a say in this professional relationship, and if you don’t like where this is going, leave this therapist and don’t come back. You also have the right to report this therapist to the ethics board or the counseling services, because that attitude is not professional at all. 

​​Another question is, “My spouse has internalized the identity paradigm, he believes this is who he is, he’s adamant about it, he’s even bringing home a lot of progressive shubuhat and revisionist arguments related to Prophet Lut (PBUH) and his people, that Islam is OK with homosexual behaviors, etc. How do I handle that?” All of these are discussed in detail in episodes 69 and 70 with Br. Mobeen Vaid. We spoke in detail about a lot of these revisionist arguments, and in episodes 71 and 72 when we spoke with Sh. Mustafa Umar on a lot of the Shar’i and legal perspectives surrounding that, so please make sure to check them out. And a wonderful article that's been written is Br. Mobeen’s article, Quranic Revisionism and the Case of Scott Kugle. This is a very important piece to be read, and Br. Mobeen also speaks about it in the episodes on revisionist arguments as well. Also, a deconstruction of the identity paradigm is presented in the second half of episode 5 of this podcast, so make sure to check it out, inshaAllah. I hope that all of this will be helpful.

Another question is, and this is relevant to both you and your spouse, “How do I deal with other people’s opinions and judgments, particularly family?” And this is regardless of whether or not they know about your spouse’s SSA. If they know, they might make assumptions or judgments every now and then, say things that hurt you or your spouse, whether they mean it or not. And if they don’t know, maybe they can pass judgments or ask questions that you don’t feel comfortable with, maybe pertaining to your own relationship, or when you’d be having kids, or what have you. Whatever the situation may be, please realize that you and your spouse ONLY are the ones responsible for and in charge of your own household. “His parents want this, my parents want that, our families demand this”, NO! Your parents or extended families are not the ones in this marriage, but you and your spouse are. Sit down with your spouse and decide together what you want your life to be like, how you want to raise your kids (if you have any), and how you want to move forward with this. It’s no one else’s business. Think about it, those same people making demands or judgments would not want their own relationships to be defined or controlled by you, then why should it be OK the other way around? Learn how to set boundaries respectfully and maintain them. Seek help from a counselor or therapist to help you with that as well. We also have two episodes on boundary setting (episodes 52 and 53) that can be helpful for you, inshaAllah. Be strong for your own sake and your own family’s sake. And if anyone doesn’t like that, then that’s on them, not on you.

Another question is, especially from a wife’s perspective, “Part of the healing and recovery work is the need to make same-sex platonic and healthy friendships and bonds. I feel insecure and sometimes get jealous by my husband seeing other men or being with them, even though I know that there’s nothing sexual or intimate going on. How do I deal with that?” There are a couple of things to consider. Please realize that this is important to him and that it’s about him. Realize that part of this jealousy and uneasiness is about you, that maybe he’s not as available or spending as much time with you, and you may want him more for yourself. So keeping this in check is key: Is it about me or about him? Or better yet, is it about the both of us and our relationship? So finding that balance is important. He has the right to have these friendships, which are healing and necessary in their own right, and you have the right to your relationship and marriage and to have your own time together. So make sure you sit down and discuss this, have your own private time together, date nights, whatever it is that helps you both feel fulfilled individually and together. Also, the time he spends with other men doesn’t have to always be outside the house. Maybe he does this because he doesn’t want to make you feel uncomfortable. Try and invite his friends over for dinner, for example, or just to hang out at your house, and get to know them more. Maybe become friends with their spouses if they have any. 

Another point worth keeping in mind is the fact that any healing interactions would bring you and your spouse close together. In other words, this is the litmus test: Are these friendships bringing us closer together? Are we becoming more comfortable with each other, more intimate, more trusting, calmer, he’s more involved with me and the kids, etc.? Or is he becoming more disconnected, distracted and distant? If it’s the latter case, then there’s something unhealthy going on that needs to be discussed. You can tell whether the transformation taking place is positive or negative. Are we moving together towards that common goal, or are we moving away from it? It’s a good idea to, again, involve a therapist or counselor to help you with this. And, finally, it’s important to remember that no change happens overnight, there’s no magic pill that solves all problems. There will be mistakes, ups and downs, and it’s a learning curve at the end of the day. What matters is that you work together, keep the communication open, attend to any issues that come up when they come up, and seek help in the process.

A common question is, “Do we have to sit together and learn everything about each other? Do I have to learn every single detail about his/her past and present?” Some spouses believe that’s necessary as they’ll feel safer and wouldn’t be “surprised” again, but then there’s the possibility that this exercise might traumatize you even further and would potentiate pain, insecurity and paranoia in the relationship. A few things are worth mentioning here. First of all, what’s your niyyah and intention behind this? Be honest with yourself. Is it to serve you and your ego? Is it so you can have more control over your spouse and know their every move? Is it because you want to start over, and that’s the only thing you know how? So it’s important to have your intentions clear. Also, and from an Islamic perspective, whatever is in the past and whatever Allah has concealed, we have no business uncovering, especially if the person has repented sincerely (tawbah nasuha) and has been trying to rectify his/her life. Just because something happened doesn’t mean we have to open up old files, especially those that we don’t know about. Again, is it about us or about them? Or, more importantly, is Allah front and center, or is it my nafs/ego?

Now in case you and your spouse agree that it’s good to discuss things openly, particularly if you would like to know particular things to be able to help them, or maybe because you want to put your heart at ease, etc., a few recommendations would be: Make sure this is a moderated setting (i.e. with a therapist, counselor or mentor) and that it’s not just the two of you, as things can get uncomfortable and difficult to deal with. Also, it doesn’t have to be one session, it’s preferable to have multiple sessions where these matters can be discussed in chunks. You can take your time and prepare a list of questions beforehand, like what exactly do you want to know? But be careful what you ask, as some things may be incredibly uncomfortable for the both of you, particularly if your spouse has already made tawbah from and kept it between him/her and Allah, subhanahu wa ta’ala, who are we to come and pry? After all, we don’t have to know each and everything about our spouses, like 1000% of all details – if that’s the case, we better take a close look in the mirror and ask ourselves what our intentions really are. Finally, I’ll share something that Richard Wyler said in a webinar he did with spouses in mixed-orientation marriages (I’ll add the link to it in the episode show notes) - he shared his own experience by telling his spouse, “OK, you have two weeks to ask me anything, and then we close the book.” So that could be something you might consider, if you need to.

Another caveat worth highlighting here is that, in the healing and recovery journey, some things will come up that haven’t been spoken about in early disclosure. It doesn’t mean that your spouse was hiding things from you, it just means that they were not aware of them, maybe they were repressed memories, or they were in denial, or they just didn’t feel comfortable even thinking about them, or they didn’t consider them a big deal until they actually realized they were. Please realize that this is a journey; it’s a marathon, not a sprint. There is ebb and flow, there are ups and downs. We need to develop patience and resilience in the process. And please don’t take things personally, and rather work together moving forward.

Another question is, “Should we tell my spouse’s family? My family (as in your extended family)? Should we tell the kids?” Again, it depends on what you both decide and why. Some people consider it no one else’s business and just keep it between the husband and wife. Others choose to tell close family or friends for the sake of getting support, guidance and mentorship. It honestly depends on how mature the other persons are, to what extent they’ll be helpful, to what extent things might backfire or word spreads elsewhere, so you need to consider all of that. What about your kids, particularly if they’re grown up? Again, it depends. Why do you want to tell them in the first place? Is this going to be helpful for them or harmful? Would it be helpful for you both or will it backfire? Figure out the pros and cons here as well. Make sure you know why you’re doing what you’re doing, with whom, and seek counseling in the process. And of course, it goes without saying that we ask Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala for help and guidance in the process. 

A common question, particularly from women, goes something like, “What if my husband is no longer attracted to me and he no longer desires me?” To this I’ll say a couple of things: firstly, there are different types of attractions, so not all attractions or desires are sexual. Of course, sexual attraction is a major type, but there’s also romantic attraction, there’s physical, emotional and aesthetic attractions, and others included other categories and classifications. They’re all entirely different, and your experience or his experience may fluctuate among them. At some points, you can experience sexual desire or attraction, while at other points, it may become more emotional or aesthetic, for example. And the same actually goes for same-sex attractions; they’re not all sexual to begin with. So keep this in mind. In addition, marriage and family are built on a lot more than just sex and boldiy desires, right? What is drawing you to your spouse and vice versa? What is the life that you are trying to build together? What is your marriage built on? We’d ask the same questions for any married couple, SSA or otherwise. Desire and intimacy can be cultivated with professional help and can come gradually through a lot of the healing work. We’ve spoken about intimacy and sex in episodes 38 and 39, so check them out when you have the chance as well.

Another common question is, “I discovered my spouse has a porn and masturbation addiction, or he’s sexually acting out and has a sex addiction. What should I do?” We’ve discussed this in detail in previous episodes. First of all, of course it's going to be shocking. You need to be dealing with yourself first. You need to navigate that shock, that pain, that feeling of disgust or those difficult emotions that you're going through. And we've spoken about the five stages of grief in episode 79 and how to navigate that. You may want to go back and revisit that episode as well. 

I know it’s tempting to blow up and make it about you. “How could you do this to me? Am I not good enough for you?” Please try your best not to do that. If you approach this wisely and rationally, the chances of you working with your spouse and improving and helping them outgrow this would become much more realizable, inshaAllah. Of course, you can’t do this on your own, so seek help in the process.

As we’ve mentioned in the previous episode and earlier episodes, when we talk about any kind of addiction or harmful self-sabotaging behaviors, all of these things are there to fill a void. They act as numbing mechanisms to soothe pain. So, your spouse is actually resorting to these things, because there's a void inside of him that he wants to fill. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it is connection. And that is very important. If you want to help your spouse overcome these issues, you have to connect with them and see what is lurking underneath the surface. They need healthy resources and healthy people that they can connect to. We've spoken about this in detail back in season four, so I encourage you to go back to episode 55, which talks about masturbation in detail, and episodes 56 to 59, these are four episodes that are dedicated to porn and sex addictions, with lots of references and resources in them. I’m also going to add a link in the episode show notes for an episode from the podcast “Coffee with Karim” about dealing with porn addiction for spouses, make sure to check it out as well.

There's so much to learn when it comes to the physiological, emotional and the personal perspectives of addiction. The techniques to demystify triggers and overcome urges and to understand more about the withdrawal period, what it includes, potential pitfalls and mind games on the journey of healing and recovery as well as a lot of practical tips and tools that you can use, as well as spiritual themes that we need to understand. Again, you don't have to do this alone, you need help in the process. Please seek counseling and therapy. There are lots of support systems and therapists who are available to help you and help your spouse overcome this.

It’s also important to understand that, while quitting porn and unwanted sexual behaviors, healing takes time. There may be periods when your spouse will take out their anger on you and their loved ones. Sometimes there might be lying, gaslighting and other manipulative behaviors. That’s not to say that everyone does that, but it can happen. It’s important to educate yourself on these behavioral patterns and consult with a specialist whenever possible.

It’s also helpful to practice giving verbal affirmations to your spouse, telling them how proud of them you are, how much better they’re looking physically, how better they are spiritually and mentally, how more connected they seem to be, how much you love them, and so on. These affirmations can go a long way honestly. And please keep these affirmations coming, as it’s very likely that they will forget them. When they’re feeling irritable, maybe from external stresses, or maybe from withdrawals due to abstinence from porn, masturbation or sexual acting out, try and have open and honest communication with them where they can tell you about what they’re going through, if you feel comfortable and safe doing so. If not, encourage them to reach out to their support system, sponsor or therapist. Maybe go out and enjoy your time together, do something healthy and fun together. 

Again, it’s worth repeating here, when your spouse is doing the healing work and recovering from porn or sex addiction, it’s important to have your own support system, counseling, self-care routines and boundaries. And remember, this process does not happen overnight; trust, proper communication and accountability are fundamental. Once again, the issue here is one of connection, belonging, love, affirmation, time, touch and talk (the three T's). Do not blow up in their face. Realize that they're dealing with pain. Don't exacerbate their pain or add more to it. Embrace them, love them, and move forward together in a direction that helps them heal. That's what's important here. But only if you can and have the capacity to do that, don’t feel pressured to do that. 

The final point I’d like to add here is the notion of “slips” or relapses in the healing journey. You need to understand this: whenever your spouse is stressed, feeling lonely or disconnected, touch-deprived, angry or emotionally triggered, or has encountered a moment of shame or felt inadequate and inferior, he’s going to go into the so-called “gray” zone, a zone of mixed emotions and an increased desire to seek numbing behaviors to “restore the balance”. And numbing behaviors can be anything from substance use (like drinking, smoking or drugs), to porn, masturbation or acting out, to binge eating, binge watching series, shopping sprees, and so on. Shaming never helps when your spouse has entered the gray zone, is about to act out, or has already acted out. Shaming, judgment and accusations only add fuel to the fire. What helps is to encourage honest communication so that you can recognize the signs of when he is in the gray zone and help him before he has a “slip”. And, of course, this can be draining to do all the time, you’re not a policeman or watch guard, you have your own life to live and your own issues to deal with. Hence the need to involve support systems, mentors, sponsors and therapists to help him here. So please keep in mind this feedback loop of trigger → gray zone → acting out → rinse and repeat, so that you can navigate that in healthy and constructive ways, inshaAllah.

And the last question is, “I’ve discovered that my spouse is a survivor of sexual abuse. I’m in shock. How do I deal with that?” That’s understandable. It’s normal for you to feel shock and go through the stages of grief, maybe pull back unintentionally. You might also think that just because your spouse was a victim of sexual abuse, he might abuse others. That’s not true. I encourage you to educate yourself on the topic and check out helpful resources. We have two comprehensive episodes on this topic, episodes 60 and 61, that talk about this entire topic from A to Z. So please check these episodes out, as well as the resources included in there. There are tons of resources that I have attached and links to websites, etc. We have spoken about the impacts of sexual abuse, the barriers to healing, we talked about the path of healing from sexual abuse, as well as a lot of frequently asked questions for survivors and their loved ones. So please check them out. Check out the books and the websites that I've added in the show notes of episodes 60 and 61. Please pace yourself, take care of yourself, do not push the other person to do things or not do things, say things or not say things, and seek help if you need to. 

1:03:41
And with this, we have come to the end of today’s episode, which has been dedicated to current and potential spouses. If you have any comments or questions, you can email me anytime on awaybeyondtherainbow(AT)gmail(DOT)com. In the next episode, inshaAllah, Ty and Danielle Mansfield will join us and share with us their story. Until then, stay safe and healthy. This has been Waheed Jensen in “A Way Beyond the Rainbow”, assalamu alaikom warahmatullahi ta’ala wabarakatuh.